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Old 03-05-2010, 08:56 PM
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Door Skins

I have a 89 Camaro and have to replace the right door skin and was wondering if any one here has ever used the boning adhesive rather then welding??? and I am looking for the skin does anyone know where you can you find one ?

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Old 03-05-2010, 09:07 PM
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The door should be the same from 82-91, can't find the whole door?
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Essex
The door should be the same from 82-91, can't find the whole door?
They should be the same from 82-92 all I need is the skin
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:09 PM
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The adhesive is all I have used in the last ten years, works very well.

Brian

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>

“Basics of Basics” Door skins
By Brian Martin

First off, to remove the old skin, take a grinder and grind the edge door where the skin folds around onto the door shell. Grind until you see the three layers of metal. Don’t worry if you grind a little too much, if the shell gets ground a little it is no big deal. On the spot welds you can drill them or grind them, sometimes both. By grind I mean a die grinder with a cut off wheel, just set the spinning wheel on the weld moving it back and forth till you have cut though eliminating the weld.

To prepare the new skin, take a DA or similar tool and sand the OUTER edge of fold in the new skin a little. I am talking about the edge as it will be folded onto your door shell. If you LIGHTLY sand this edge the lip will fold MUCH easier when you install the skin.

If you don’t plan on bonding the skin on, I highly recommend it. It is a corrosion fighter like none other. With the door sitting on it's back (the interior side down) clean the edge where the panel will bond with an abrasive disc to bare metal. Don't use a grinder, it removes metal. Then you will put a small ribbon of panel adhesive, NOT door skin adhesive but the Panel adhesive, it has a higher strength and longer working time. Spread out the adhesive with a plastic spreader so ALL the bare metal is covered. Then apply another thin ribbon on the inside edge of shell where it folds down towards the interior.
I don't know what primer you will find on the new skin, if you can be assured it is good quality and has bonded well, leave it. If it is questionable, then sand it out and apply a good epoxy primer.
After you have a good primer (or left alone) you need to simply scuff it with a red scuff pad down in the area that will be bonding. And believe me DON'T over do it with the bonding! It WILL go around the other side of the fold without even trying and get on your dolly and hammer!
Lay the skin down on the door and position it. Clamp it down at the top where you won't mess up the outer skin. I used a rubber dolly, if you don't have one take a flat dolly and tape a rag or something on it to provide a little cush. A neat home made dolly for this can be fashioned from a 5" long piece of 2x4 hard wood and a 3M rubber squeege glued to it. Hold the dolly on the top surface right over where you are going to fold the lip, strike up on the fold with your hammer while pushing down on the dolly, strike it at an angle so the metal "wants" to hold and NOT lift the skin off the door.
THE TRICK!...... Don't fold it very much at a time, I mean VERY LITTLE, about an 1/8" MAX, maybe even 1/16". Go around the WHOLE door before folding more. Go around and around until you have it folded down almost flat, about 1/16" from touching.
Turn the door over, being particularly careful not to rest the door in a way that will bend your new skin! Now strike down with the hammer while you are still supporting with the dolly to close up the fold a bit more.
ANOTHER TIP!....DON'T smash it down!!!! Two reasons, one you will distort the outside and two you need to leave the bonding in there for it to work.
STILL ANOTHER TIP!.... Use a number of hammers that closely match the shape of the door, if you are in the rounded area at the top of the door, use a domed hammer.

After all folding is done, fine tune the edge so that there are no high or low spots. You can run a vexin file over these areas to spot highs and lows and cut a LITTLE if you need off of high spots. Then using a DA on grinder mode with a 120 disc you "block" the panel around the edge to perfection.

You can spray a weld thru primer on a couple of inches or so at the corners so you can then weld there and not burn the adhesive. But be ready to trial fit the door and twist it if need be for your weld it. You should always trial fit the door before the adhesive cures and “massage” the door to fit well then weld the corners on the back side so the door can’t twist while the adhesive cures.


If you have any fears of not being able to get the door skin on and folded in the working time of the adhesive, don’t use it! All you need is a little tack weld at each corner on the inside at the folded lip. Just go ahead and prime all the hidden areas and after the skin is on, put a seam sealer on the folded seam and spray a cavity wax or underseal around the seam from the inside.


Read the recommendations on the adhesive you are using, some want the metal bare while other want it to be primed, read the tech sheets.
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Old 03-06-2010, 09:25 AM
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It's very much easier, cheaper, faster and cleaner just to replace the door, you will not be saving anything by doing a door skin. Can you guess why BMW, Jaguar, Volvo, Mercedes, et al have never sold door skins?

The bonding adhesive works great when used correctly BUT it's not cheap at $60.00 per tube PLUS the pump gun and extra tips. You'll need adhesive around the perimeter and expanding foam for the side beam.

I will suggest the Mactools.com BTMC-1A door skin clamps for bonding the skin on, get 2 sets. Also their BTH170-R door skin hammer, half the price of Snap-on BF635, the Matrin 170-G door skin hammer has the working face ground at the WRONG angle to be useful.

I would suggest using the faster door skin adhesive, set and clamp the skin in place and let the adhesive set-up, flip the door and trim the ooze from the back side THEN fold over the edge. It's cleaner, easier and smoother than hammering over wet glue, no filler needed.

Not being funny but set everything up and in place with a dry-run so you're not hunting around for anything once you start with the adhesive.

Your Camaro has 1 body line at the center of the door, mark it on the door shell BEFORE you remove the old skin, makes lining up the new skin easier.

Have fun with it, but it really is faster just to change the door.
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Old 03-06-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldBodyman
It's very much easier, cheaper, faster and cleaner just to replace the door, you will not be saving anything by doing a door skin. Can you guess why BMW, Jaguar, Volvo, Mercedes, et al have never sold door skins?
They don't sell skins because they like selling $800 doors!!!

For a newbe, you are darn right, replacing the whole door makes a LOT more sense. And if this door skin is not an OEM General Motors skin, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! There is NO repro skin that is going to go on like an OEM one, the fit and finish is way off.

For someone who is going to be doing this for a living, master door skins they are a money maker.


Brian
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:11 AM
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LOL, I went looking to see that the heck you were talking about with the Martin door skin hammer, and it's true, it looks like the darn thing is made wrong!


This is how the others are shaped.


I love Martin Tools and have a number of them. But after staring at that photo of their hammer this morning, I can't figure out why it would be made that way! I figured it would come to me, they aren't dumb. But I can't figure it out, I can't find a single reason why you would prefer to have the head at that angle. I'm sure SOMEONE likes it that way, I have to assume it isn't a "mistake", they aren't THAT stupid.

Here is a review I did on a.....gasp......Harbor Freight door skin hammer...Click here sorry for the loss of pictures, I don't use that photo support anymore. Here is the kit. They don't appear to have the rubber dolly available anymore.



On the letting the glue kick and then hemming the door, I have heard others use that method. The problem with it is that the hammer of the hem breaks the bond! That is how you would take off an old bonded panel, simply whack on the metal and snap it loose. The other problem is, you can't trial fit the door before the bond kicks! That is the biggest reason I don't do it. The trick is, don't use too much glue. ONLY put the glue on the mating surface and not on the outside where the skin hems over. If you do that you will get very little oozing out. I do agree, that it can get pretty sloppy if you get a bunch coming out and it has happened to me. But I don't feel there is any option, you MUST get the door hemmed before it cures in my opinion.

Brian
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:27 PM
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Maybe that hammer recently went under a redesign by Chong Li Lmtd. Inc. LOL
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:26 PM
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I have 2 door skin hammers and as the bonding adhesive well Im going to give it a shot I have never trusted it but I know body men that have used it for a while and it has held up and I never found a skin OEM or after market so I am going with a used door
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rag top bird
I never found a skin OEM or after market so I am going with a used door
Good choice. I will repair just about anything before I use aftermarket/repro sheetmetal. It is the absolute worse.

Brian
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:09 AM
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I have used aftermarket skins and have never found one that fit well. As for using bonding adhesive, I would never do that either. If the door is twisted and it will be, and the glue has set up, you will have a major problem with the door fit. I prefer to form over the edge, mount the door, and tack weld in spots, checking the fit as I go along. A tack every 6" or so will do it. Grind them down and prime with epoxy. Apply seam sealer around the inside edge and reprime the sealed area. After the door is top coated, then apply 3M cavity wax on the inside of the door and your good to go.

You can also remove the OEM skin, repair as necessary and reinstall the skin. I've done this on trunk lids and is a ton of work but sometimes can be the only choice.

Jim
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:41 AM
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Door Skin....

Hi,go to a U-PULL-IT,and get the whole door. probably $50.00,,too much trouble to change door skin,unless you are a glutton for punishment........
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbob2
Hi,go to a U-PULL-IT,and get the whole door. probably $50.00,,too much trouble to change door skin,unless you are a glutton for punishment........
Replacing the skin is not that hard as long as you have one that fits
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