Down and dirty 59 F100 build: front clip - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2009, 08:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Down and dirty 59 F100 build: front clip

Hi,

I am new to the forum and have a few questions about putting IFS under the front of my 59 F-100. This project is going to be for my wife to drive so it has to have power steering and good brakes. I am trying to do this on a thin budget (i.e. no budget) so heres what I have or can buy really cheap.

1.) I have the front clip from an 87 Chevy Caprice
2. )I can get the front clip from an 83 Monte Carlo that is a mile up the road for around $100
3.) I can pick up a Volare style front clip for $150

Installation of the clip itself will be handled by a professional welder/fabricator.

With that said, which one should I go with. I am limiting myself to these three because that is what my budget will allow for. I would consider another alternative if they are common cars that I will be able to find in a junkyard I can't afford a Mustang II setup so that is out. I would love to have one of the industrial chassis crossmembers, but that is also not in the budget. I have looked into the Jag also but haven't found a reasonable donor. I even considered the aerostar and the 03-up crown vic(seems to be too wide). I have researched this to death and I am ready to make something happen. Thanks for the help in advance.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: louisiana
Posts: 19
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, i used to build minitrucks and put airride on all sorts of things, and im pretty sure that the Caprice front ends use the same style components (control arms, springs etc) as the S10s, so if you want to get it down low, thats probably the way to go about it, because rebuild kits and aftermarket parts are alllll over the market. And i was almost sure that the Monte and Caprice front ends were very very similar, so why go spend $ on one when you already have the other?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2009, 06:49 AM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Another option is the F100/F150 twin I-Beam IFS. Here's one bagged and grafted onto an Econoline frame.



I use them on all my rods but I've never put one on a '59 like yours so can't speak to any specific challenges that might raise. The are cheap, abundant and they come with disc brakes and power steering was an often used option. And it's Ford in Ford.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2009, 10:04 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had looked into using the I beams from a 79 f-150 but had thought they were too wide for my truck. I was also worried about the Caprice being too wide. One reason I was thinking B or G body GM clip was you can buy drop spindles and springs fairly cheap. Thank you both for the replies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:22 AM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by longnlow
I had looked into using the I beams from a 79 f-150 but had thought they were too wide for my truck.
The I beams CAN be relocated a couple of inches on each side to reduce the overall wide of the front end. You can't go too far or you start interfering with the radius rods, wheel turning, and overall geometry. But you could gain up to about 4 inches (2" per side). The drawback is that you would have to pretty much build the front clip yourself (using 2x3 or 2x4 tubing). And for your application this might become a bit of a hassle. On an open wheel car or and early 30's full fendered car it would be easier to accomplish, particularly if you are building the rest of the frame from scratch. But it could be done on your '59 if you run short on other good options.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 11:16 AM
72 grabber 51F-1 65 chevystang
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dora Alabama
Age: 23
Posts: 314
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I know a guy who put a volare clip under a 59 F-100 and it works good to the best of my knowledge. I see him drive it. It does sit low in the front
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:25 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cedar Springs, MI
Age: 41
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Another option is the F100/F150 twin I-Beam IFS. Here's one bagged and grafted onto an Econoline frame.

I use them on all my rods but I've never put one on a '59 like yours so can't speak to any specific challenges that might raise. The are cheap, abundant and they come with disc brakes and power steering was an often used option. And it's Ford in Ford.
Cboy,

What was the track width of that as installed? Which year was used?

Thanks,

Chris
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2009, 08:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I may have a game plan going. Found a Camaro clip cheap and I am hoping to pick it up soon. The track width should be within half-inch of the old straight axle. Since I am going GM clip, I think I am going to use a Pontiac 350 and a 350TH trans that have been in the garage collecting dust for a few years. These parts and a junkyard Explorer 8.8 axle in the rear should have me rolling for very little dough.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2009, 09:15 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by coostv
What was the track width of that as installed? Which year was used?
The front end in the picture I posted earlier in this thread is from my '32 pickup and it came out of a '78 F-150. Unfortunately the car is in the body shop (hit a deer with it) so I can't measure it for you and I don't recall the width off the top of my head.

My sedan delivery (below) is also MIA...it's at Dan TwoLake's shop getting the interior done. The Twin I-Beams for this one came from a '79 F-100.





My roadster (below) IS here at home and the track width, tread center to tread center is 65". Backing plate to backing plate the width is 59 3/4" (this is actually rotor to rotor since the backing plates are removed). This Twin beam is from an '81 F-150.



Hope that helps a little.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cedar Springs, MI
Age: 41
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
The front end in the picture I posted earlier in this thread is from my '32 pickup and it came out of a '78 F-150. Unfortunately the car is in the body shop (hit a deer with it) so I can't measure it for you and I don't recall the width off the top of my head.
Man, that's a bummer, hopefully it will be fully repaired a-okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
My roadster (below) IS here at home and the track width, tread center to tread center is 65". Backing plate to backing plate the width is 59 3/4" (this is actually rotor to rotor since the backing plates are removed). This Twin beam is from an '81 F-150.



Hope that helps a little.
That helps a bunch. What is your frame width overall at the mounting points? Could the track width have been narrowed in your app? Sorry for all of the questions.

Also, sorry to the OP, this piqued my curiosity.

Chris
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:04 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by coostv
What is your frame width overall at the mounting points? Could the track width have been narrowed in your app?
(Longnlow, if this diverts your thread too far, just say the word and we can start a new one.)

The simple answer to your question, coostv, is yes, the track width can be narrowed for almost any twin I-beam fabrication. But the maximum amount of narrowing will be dependent on a couple of factors. The first one is that not every year I-beam is the same.

The '81 I used in the roadster, for example, has shorter beams than the '78 or '79. The first two pictures below were taken during fabrication of the sedan delivery project which has '79 beams. The first thing you'll notice is that this is an underslung mounting -- the I-beams are on top of the frame rails.

Also note how the mounting points are set right on the frame rails (the frame measures 32" wide outside to outside) and the two beams are the same length. Assuming you use a 4-link type radius rod similar to mine, I estimate you could move the mounting points OUTWARD between 1 and 2 inches per side, thus narrowing your track width by 2 to 4 inches. Going beyond that will begin to interfere with the radius rods and the turning radius of the wheels as well as possible steering complications.





These next shots were taken during fabrication of my roadster. Note that for this chassis I Z'ed the front end and mounted the I-beams under the frame rails. This frame is also 32" outside to outside. So you can quickly see that the '81 I beams are a few inches shorter and the mounting points are thus inboard from the frame rails.

If you look closely you will also notice that the front I-beam (for driver side wheel) is longer than the back I-beam (for the passenger side wheel). Thus the mounting brackets are somewhat offset on the frame. But again, these mounting points could be moved to narrow the track width...possibly as much as 3 or more inches per side, thus narrowing your track with by 6 or more inches. I haven't done any precise calculations so I can't tell you exactly how far you can narrow things without running into radius rod or turning radius questions.

You will also note that during fabrication I used the stock Ford radius rods to position the I-beams for welding the mounting brackets. The third picture below shows the 4-link type radius rods which were used for the final assembly. This gives you a little better idea of how the final setup looks and how it could be narrowed.







Hope that helps a bit. In case you are not aware, I have fairly detailed journals for both the roadster build and the sedan delivery build. There are many more pictures of the front suspensions and step by steps explanations of how they were put together.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2009, 10:28 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cedar Springs, MI
Age: 41
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
(Longnlow, if this diverts your thread too far, just say the word and we can start a new one.)
I will start a new thread if I have more questions.

I looked through your journal last night. Your Sedan Delivery is similar to what I would like to construct. I am wavering between pick up and delivery. Whichever I do will end up shiny to to advertise my business.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I am just getting started in the planning stages for building a rolling chassis this coming winter (probably all I can afford at this point).

Thanks again.

Chris
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Well, about that mustang...
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Posts: 106
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Another option is the F100/F150 twin I-Beam IFS. Here's one bagged and grafted onto an Econoline frame.



I use them on all my rods but I've never put one on a '59 like yours so can't speak to any specific challenges that might raise. The are cheap, abundant and they come with disc brakes and power steering was an often used option. And it's Ford in Ford.

In comparison to the Mustang II IFS...how well does it steer/handle? I have a 66' Stang I'm changing the front end and looking for ideas
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2009, 04:49 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntx_gearhead
In comparison to the Mustang II IFS...how well does it steer/handle?
Well, that all depends on the Mustang II IFS. I've seen some that have all sorts of problems and some that drive like a dream. All depends on how well you get the geometry and components set up.

Same is true for a twin I-beam. I've experienced no bump steer of other typical steering/handling gremlins with any of mine. I did experience some strange and premature tire wear with my '32 pickup but that turned out to be inadequate shocks (Pete and Jake's shorties set at too much of an angle). I replaced the tires and shocks and the problem disappeared.

Some F-150 owners have reported seeing a little premature tire wear as a result of the camber situation that is inherent in all twin beam suspensions. This is not something I've experienced but those interested in twin beams might want to google up some info on that.

That being said, I would think the best bet with your '66 would be to stick with the basic design you already have and then try to improve the ride characteristics by tweaking the shocks and/or springs a bit. Are you having any particular difficulties with the stock setup?
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.