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Old 12-27-2008, 08:29 PM
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Drag race & Wheelstands

I really don't do much drag racing but from watching alot of it on TV, I noticed that the cars that hook up really well and have the horse power for it, well they wheel stand, some quite a bit. Got me thinking is this what you really want or need to cut a fast ET? Aren't you using your horse power to raise the front end off the ground instead of moving the car forward? Also noticed that once the front end comes back down the car seems to hesitate before accellerating again. Also see a lot of shimmy in the front wheels when they land, this can't be good for acceleration can it?

Shoot me some theory on the correct launch and the suspension set up!

I'm betting there are different theories depending on who you talk to....

Morgan

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Old 12-27-2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan22
I really don't do much drag racing but from watching alot of it on TV, I noticed that the cars that hook up really well and have the horse power for it, well they wheel stand, some quite a bit. Got me thinking is this what you really want or need to cut a fast ET? Aren't you using your horse power to raise the front end off the ground instead of moving the car forward? Also noticed that once the front end comes back down the car seems to hesitate before accellerating again. Also see a lot of shimmy in the front wheels when they land, this can't be good for acceleration can it?

Shoot me some theory on the correct launch and the suspension set up!

I'm betting there are different theories depending on who you talk to....

Morgan
Looks like you've got a pretty good head on your shoulders. Correct! Raising the front is taking away from moving it forward, but when it comes down, it will gain back what it lost. Ideally, you only pick the front a little, and it comes down smooth, because when it comes down hard, it takes more to recover from the shock. Four link suspension is the easiest to tune the launches, but with a heavy car, it's very difficult to keep from jerking the front up. My car, when it had the 474 in it, and weighed 2600 lbs, would pick the front tires 4 or 5 inches, and carry them about 200 feet, now, at 2750 and with a 606, it jerks the front up about 2 feet, but drops it about the 60 foot mark.

Bill

474:

606:
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:17 PM
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The fastest cars do not lift the wheels they just have the weight transfer raise the front, ever so slightly.

Lifting the car up so as to bring the wheels off the ground, slows it down by exposing a larger frontal force (whole bottom of the car) to aerodynamic forces.

Pro setup cars use wheelie bars and properly setup suspensions to prevent it.

That is why you do not see 4 sec 8000 hp TF cars lifting the wheels........

Then you have the clowns, pulling wheelies and boasting about them, until they meet the wall, another car, or fence...
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHD
The fastest cars do not lift the wheels they just have the weight transfer raise the front, ever so slightly.

Lifting the car up so as to bring the wheels off the ground, slows it down by exposing a larger frontal force (whole bottom of the car) to aerodynamic forces.

Pro setup cars use wheelie bars and properly setup suspensions to prevent it.

That is why you do not see 4 sec 8000 hp TF cars lifting the wheels........

Then you have the clowns, pulling wheelies and boasting about them, until they meet the wall, another car, or fence...
It's actually pretty common to see the TF car's lift the front wheels and carry them past the 60FT mark. It's kinda hard to have a 60ft time that is less than a second and already be doing 100mph without sometimes lifting the front tires a little.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan22
I really don't do much drag racing but from watching alot of it on TV, I noticed that the cars that hook up really well and have the horse power for it, well they wheel stand, some quite a bit. Got me thinking is this what you really want or need to cut a fast ET? Aren't you using your horse power to raise the front end off the ground instead of moving the car forward? Also noticed that once the front end comes back down the car seems to hesitate before accellerating again. Also see a lot of shimmy in the front wheels when they land, this can't be good for acceleration can it?

Shoot me some theory on the correct launch and the suspension set up!

I'm betting there are different theories depending on who you talk to....

Morgan
Heres a good one for ya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7zs4IZRU4k
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
There's something to be said for wheelie bars, especially on a short wheelbase car. It would have unloaded the tires, and probably bent the bars, but wouldn't have gone over. With my car and the 474, I didn't know that it was carrying the front, until someone showed me a clip. With the 474, I know its up, and can feel it come down.

Bill

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Old 12-27-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDCreech
There's something to be said for wheelie bars, especially on a short wheelbase car. It would have unloaded the tires, and probably bent the bars, but wouldn't have gone over. With my car and the 474, I didn't know that it was carrying the front, until someone showed me a clip. With the 474, I know its up, and can feel it come down.

Bill



That was actually at a wheel stand contest, they where saying he did it on purpose to win.
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:16 PM
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EDdie wheelstand jones

A drag racer from Malad Idaho used to do a lot of wheelstands. not the way to win races but the crowds liked it...He built a stage coach wheelstander then a firetruck wheelstander did exibitation runs for cash from the strip owners, got sponsorship from jolly rancher candy . Even took his firetruck to Japan to do wheelies.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:59 AM
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jones wheelies

google ed outlaw jones. you will find a video of him going the full length with the wheels up
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:30 AM
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Check out these Pro Stock racecars they lift the front wheels ever so slightly showing the motorīs effort is propelling the car forwards not up.

Wheelstanders and cars built for wheelstand competitions are a different breed.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:00 AM
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Super Stockers tend to get the nose up. I think it is due to nose heavy cars, limited tire sizes, and limited suspension mods due to stock floor requirements. They pick the front ends up a bit more in order to hook better.
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:54 AM
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Picking the front end up or the wheels 1-3 inches is not a wheel stand in my book, just the launch inertia.

Straight line racing is out, not up down and out....
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:30 PM
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re:Drag race & Wheelstands

LOL, that car going over backwards really got me laughing

OK weight transfer to the rear and minimal front end lift or at least not excessive front end lift. Got it.

So if these guys I see yanking the front wheels quite aways off the ground were to increase tire pressure or put a smaller tire under it (less traction)they would cut a faster ET if they didn't lift the wheels so far?

In general do you want the car to squat much on take off or should the rear be pretty stiff for the weight transfer?

Morgan
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHD
Picking the front end up or the wheels 1-3 inches is not a wheel stand in my book, just the launch inertia.

Straight line racing is out, not up down and out....
You might tell the Super Stock guy's that they're doing it all wrong then!

Running in the 9's with the wheels WAY up.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan22
OK weight transfer to the rear and minimal front end lift or at least not excessive front end lift. Got it.
You got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan22
So if these guys I see yanking the front wheels quite aways off the ground were to increase tire pressure or put a smaller tire under it (less traction)they would cut a faster ET if they didn't lift the wheels so far?
Tire pressure - While it has an effect on traction, it is an effect, not a cause. You adjust the tire pressure to make sure the tire has a maximum contact patch across the width. Too little pressure and the tire rides on the outside edges. Too much and it rides on the center. (Don't know if drag radials react the same way - I am an old bias ply guy)
The Super Stock guys would actually run a wider tire if they could. As it stands, they are limited to 14-1/2" x 33" new with a maximum width of 15-1/2" regardless of wear. But more important than that, they tend to be nose heavy. They have to use a stock sized radiator (although it can be aluminum), all of the original front sheet metal, and a full front suspension. Additionally, the floor must remain stock (or stock location, same or greater weight) which limits the suspension modifications which might improve traction. They balance front end rise with traction. Basically what you said. They just have to go higher due to the rules restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan22
In general do you want the car to squat much on take off or should the rear be pretty stiff for the weight transfer?
Morgan
Depends on the car, the track, and the rules. My wagon would lift the whole car on launch. This hit the tires hard. My car could take it cause it was a tank at 3800#. It never lost traction even with 9" tires. Tended to be a bit "loose" at the big end. Squat is softer on the tires. The four link, ladder bars, or traction bars should be adjusted to determine the amount of rise or squat.
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