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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:13 PM
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so one last question... We like to use epoxy, poly primer,2k for last round of blocking, and epoxy as sealer...If we substitute the epoxy fill primer for the 2k would it be ok to not seal? Seems so but just wondering.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:00 PM
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Sure, why not? As long as there are no sand throughs on edges or heavy sand scratches anywhere, your epoxy now just becomes your sealer as well. This last car I almost did it that way but went the extra step to seal.............and gained nothing more than if I did it the way you just mentioned.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
so one last question... We like to use epoxy, poly primer,2k for last round of blocking, and epoxy as sealer...If we substitute the epoxy fill primer for the 2k would it be ok to not seal? Seems so but just wondering.
I do it all the time I hardly ever use a sealer (even epoxy ) Only on high end super straight work do I use an epoxy sealer when I do seal I always sand it before paint.
If youve ever sanded an after market panel(like a hood )you;ll sand the primer off in many spots (I usually sand all that cheap primer completely off)or if you strip a panel and it dosent need any filler work you can reduce the SPI to 20-40% and after spraying two coats go right to paint,it flashes pretty fast.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:00 AM
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After completing the blocking there may be sand throughs or some variance in color like say you used a black epoxy primer and a gray 2k or something on that order so shooting a sealer makes the whole car one color so the base will lay down in a uniform way..Just seems to me to work better..

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:20 AM
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Yup, thats when using it as a sealer is best...
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks View Post
I use it mostly as a sealer or over bare metal before 2K.
For 2K I use Finish 1, great 2K hi-build primer.
i have used finish 1 2k JUNK IMO!!!

you must have used some really lower line Primers to think this stuff is High build or good?

i use Sherwin Williams products.

i use there P30 set-up and love it,very expensive but some of the finest 2k primer i have ever used.

as far as Epoxy SPI is top dog for me.

in collision repair i just don't have the time to use it from start to finish.

all Bare metal should have Epoxy cover it then go from there with whatever you want.

i always seal either with my P30 converted to sealer or Epoxy.

Travis.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:31 AM
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Finish one products are junk but Sherwin Williams products are the best thing since sliced bread? Isn't finish line a product I SW?
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Finish one products are junk but Sherwin Williams products are the best thing since sliced bread? Isn't finish line a product I SW?
LOL!

i was stating my opinion on the product.

i used a few gallons of it and cared not for the product.

yes Finish 1 is the lower line of SW products.

just like Omni is lower line PPG does not make PPG junk.

just like Nason is lower line Dupont does not make Dupont junk either.

i have used all the lower line primers over the years and all were about the same okay.

the finish 1 for ME! was not what i wanted.

i have also used the upper lines of Primers and Epoxys from the 3 groups.

SPI epoxy IMO again just ME! is better than the other lines.

P30 2K is better than the others to me.

used dupont for 30 years,PPG 9 years Pro-spray a little less than 2 years.

i have only been with SW products for 6 months.(i got from them a stocked Mixing set-up and extras).

we all have opinions i was sharing mine.

Happy New Years.
Travis

Last edited by Hotbo; 12-28-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:28 AM
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Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. I guess I just misunderstood your post. I never expect the same quality from the cheaper lines of the big companies but sometimes it what the customer wants. A good example is a car I have lined up. The customer wanted to use PPG from beginning to end. After I called and priced everything, he changed his mind and decided not to spend $2100 on materials alone.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. I guess I just misunderstood your post. I never expect the same quality from the cheaper lines of the big companies but sometimes it what the customer wants. A good example is a car I have lined up. The customer wanted to use PPG from beginning to end. After I called and priced everything, he changed his mind and decided not to spend $2100 on materials alone.
no feathers ruffled at all

i have used tons of the cheaper line Primers.

none of them imo are really worth a crap.

i have used and really like SPI products for a few years and there Primers are top notch with a nice price to boot.

i got into the P30 SW Primer and P50 when i got hooked up with them and think its good stuff but the price sucks!



DTM primers i have never felt safe using on large open areas of bare metal.

Etch primers are 70s tech.imo

Epoxy all the way on Bare metal.

Everyones(top companies PPG,Dupont,SW,Spies ect.) products if you use them throughout are way over priced!



Best wishes Travis.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Finish one products are junk but Sherwin Williams products are the best thing since sliced bread? Isn't finish line a product I SW?
I think its called dimentions but its been a while, the stuff I tried really sucked so I never used it again (only once) But SW 7000 high end products are some of the best out there (top three) very expensive .....
If money was no object I'd go with glasurit base and it s a toss up between Glasurit clear or SPI universal clear (tough choice) but SPI preforms just as well but its a much better deal so I'd lean towards the SPI then SPI epoxy,on a high end job where money isnt a problem SPI epoxy would be the ONLY primer I use ,no 2k at all....
I do a lot of budget work also so I use a lot of the low end stuff too...Omini plus(base) is best for color match,Nason would be second...
as far as clear goes SPI euro clear or the SPI production clear...thats it...and I've tried about all of them
For best SS(urathane) low end paintI really like the Nason best it flows out like glass without runs and holds up very well the rest are all about the same.
.The only 2k primer I use is SPI but I use so little of it I only buy it a Qt at a time...again I've tried about all of them,I find this is the best deal with no (cheap crap) problems....

Generally ,on good production quality production spot work on cars no older than five years I'll use Dupont chroma base,SPI clear.SPI epoxy...

Low end production work would be omini plus base with Spi Euro clear,spi epoxy primer ,sometimes SPI 2k
This is just my opinion(for what its worth)...I'm a cheap bassurd and I want the best for my money and it took about 35 yrs to form this opinion but then everyone has one with different reasons to base it on...but dont buy on price alone listen to what we are sayin and make your own choice...You'll be way ahead of us when we first started...
All that said it takes experiance and lots of it to get the best results ,the paint and materials require some thinking ,spending a ton of money on the best of the best and the most expensive wotn neccessarily give you a good or better job.it might just give you a crappy job that 'll last forever though...so think about a little,then mabee call Barry at SPI and see how he 'll stand by you and help you out from start to finish with your project then call PPG and Dupont even SW and see how well they help you out with the project and the choice will be simple...
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I think its called dimentions but its been a while, the stuff I tried really sucked so I never used it again (only once) But SW 7000 high end products are some of the best out there (top three) very expensive .....
If money was no object I'd go with glasurit base and it s a toss up between Glasurit clear or SPI universal clear (tough choice) but SPI preforms just as well but its a much better deal so I'd lean towards the SPI then SPI epoxy,on a high end job where money isnt a problem SPI epoxy would be the ONLY primer I use ,no 2k at all....
I do a lot of budget work also so I use a lot of the low end stuff too...Omini plus(base) is best for color match,Nason would be second...
as far as clear goes SPI euro clear or the SPI production clear...thats it...and I've tried about all of them
For best SS(urathane) low end paintI really like the Nason best it flows out like glass without runs and holds up very well the rest are all about the same.
.The only 2k primer I use is SPI but I use so little of it I only buy it a Qt at a time...again I've tried about all of them,I find this is the best deal with no (cheap crap) problems....

Generally ,on good production quality production spot work on cars no older than five years I'll use Dupont chroma base,SPI clear.SPI epoxy...

Low end production work would be omini plus base with Spi Euro clear,spi epoxy primer ,sometimes SPI 2k
This is just my opinion(for what its worth)...I'm a cheap bassurd and I want the best for my money and it took about 35 yrs to form this opinion but then everyone has one with different reasons to base it on...but dont buy on price alone listen to what we are sayin and make your own choice...You'll be way ahead of us when we first started...
All that said it takes experiance and lots of it to get the best results ,the paint and materials require some thinking ,spending a ton of money on the best of the best and the most expensive wotn neccessarily give you a good or better job.it might just give you a crappy job that 'll last forever though...so think about a little,then mabee call Barry at SPI and see how he 'll stand by you and help you out from start to finish with your project then call PPG and Dupont even SW and see how well they help you out with the project and the choice will be simple...

Dimention is a line to all itself with SW.

Finish 1(Acme) is different.

if i had 2 put a lower line Primer ahead of the others it would be Omni 282 ahead of the Nason,Transtar and Nason(some of the lower lines i have used.

The reason we left Dupont was the price(my Ole man had been with them since 65)we switched to PPG b/c a friend of mine i went to School with was the Jobber and Gave a better deal.lasted for some time.i used every product PPG had over that course,liked them all.

he left then got tired of Pricing Plus some other things.went to Pro-spray like Pro spray base nothing else about there Product was impressive for me.

I have a SW jobber close that begged me for years to get a Bank and try them.

so guess what i did i use SW ultra 7000 with the Ultra line of Primers.

they gave me 4 cases of Finish1 720 clear(overall Clear)and i like it! Sprays good looks good,ect.

i still use SPI 2100 clear,Primers,Epoxy and cleaners.i got lucky and my Jobber gave me a bunch of SW products for using them.

when they Run out i will Mix more SPI back into my stuff then SW.

just b/c of the money savings alone.

Travis
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:04 PM
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I like simple solutions. Also I will use a paint system until it fails one time, then find something better. I also avoid new products for a couple years, until the manufacturer works out the "early production problems". When I get a system that works for me every time, I will NOT change it unless it fails. (Yes... they do reformulate products to meet EPA standards and such... and it usually leads to problems. I will not use the latest "trick-of-the-week" system, when mine is working just fine.

I have used 2K primer only for about 20 years with zero failures. Sand the metal good, then metal prep 30-60 minutes before primer, and NEVER has adhesion problems. The only time I would consider epoxy first is if it will be left in primer and exposed to the weather. As far as wetsanding, I do it on every job, and then seal and paint. No problems with this in 20 years of full time work.

I know I am a dinosaur... but I guarantee my work for as long as they own the project. That takes confidence. I like Marhyde's Ultimate Primer.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotbo View Post
i have used finish 1 2k JUNK IMO!!!

you must have used some really lower line Primers to think this stuff is High build or good?

i use Sherwin Williams products.

i use there P30 set-up and love it,very expensive but some of the finest 2k primer i have ever used.

as far as Epoxy SPI is top dog for me.

in collision repair i just don't have the time to use it from start to finish.

all Bare metal should have Epoxy cover it then go from there with whatever you want.

i always seal either with my P30 converted to sealer or Epoxy.

Travis.
Don't think that I'm some amateur who just grabbed gun in his hand. I've been painting, doing bodywork for good 15 years now. I have used many different primers, expensive PPG K36 and compared to K36 Finish 1 is great primer for fraction of a price (and I get it at discount from local SW dealer)
I'm sure there are more expensive products out there but for repairs this works just great.
I do use SPI epoxy and yes it's great product. It is too expensive to use as a high build primer though and I have 2k primer for just that purpose.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay View Post
I like simple solutions. Also I will use a paint system until it fails one time, then find something better. I also avoid new products for a couple years, until the manufacturer works out the "early production problems". When I get a system that works for me every time, I will NOT change it unless it fails. (Yes... they do reformulate products to meet EPA standards and such... and it usually leads to problems. I will not use the latest "trick-of-the-week" system, when mine is working just fine.

I have used 2K primer only for about 20 years with zero failures. Sand the metal good, then metal prep 30-60 minutes before primer, and NEVER has adhesion problems. The only time I would consider epoxy first is if it will be left in primer and exposed to the weather. As far as wetsanding, I do it on every job, and then seal and paint. No problems with this in 20 years of full time work.

I know I am a dinosaur... but I guarantee my work for as long as they own the project. That takes confidence. I like Marhyde's Ultimate Primer.
Oh yeah,I remember that ultimate primer it was pretty darn good stuff and cheap too...I used itwhen it first came out and for a few years after that ..do they still make it
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