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Old 12-25-2012, 05:58 PM
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DTM primer questions

I have been painting for almost 12 years so I am relatively still inexperienced and I have noticed a lot of suppliers really pushing the use of epoxy primers after blasting, stripping or any use over bare metal. My question is why go to the extra steps of using the epoxy when there are several reputable DTM 2k and high build primers available? If using the steps recommended by some manufacturers you would need 3 or 4 different primers for every job. Epoxy, high build, 2k, and 2k sealer. I remember the days of etching primer and glass jars for all over bare metal and I could see using the epoxy or etching for those jobs, but is it really beneficial for small collision type repairs? I am not arguing the use of epoxy, just wondering why create an additional step and more expense and supplies instead a DTM 2k or high build? I guess the short version of this question is why epoxy and not DTM 2k?

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Old 12-25-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
I have been painting for almost 12 years so I am relatively still inexperienced and I have noticed a lot of suppliers really pushing the use of epoxy primers after blasting, stripping or any use over bare metal. My question is why go to the extra steps of using the epoxy when there are several reputable DTM 2k and high build primers available? If using the steps recommended by some manufacturers you would need 3 or 4 different primers for every job. Epoxy, high build, 2k, and 2k sealer. I remember the days of etching primer and glass jars for all over bare metal and I could see using the epoxy or etching for those jobs, but is it really beneficial for small collision type repairs? I am not arguing the use of epoxy, just wondering why create an additional step and more expense and supplies instead a DTM 2k or high build? I guess the short version of this question is why epoxy and not DTM 2k?
it's more dense than a 2k and holds out water vapors better and when you crosslink it to a 2k you'll have better adhesion to bare metal.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:28 AM
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Cars come with epoxy primer underneath finish/paint and most auto body shops should restore it to pre-collision condition and that's where epoxy comes into play. Realistically speaking most people won't own their cars 10-20 years from now but top end body shops still have to make sure they put out a good quality paint job. Usually a decent body shop will warranty their work for lifetime of the car, so they wouldn't want you coming back with rust, peeling, etc issues
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
I guess the short version of this question is why epoxy and not DTM 2k?
For me it's shrinkage issues, those DTM 2K's seem to shrink a lot.
and, I believe the epoxy is superior when it comes to adhesion.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:36 AM
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Your absolutely right ,theres way to many steps and the extra expense plus the drying time between primers,what a PITA... wouldnt it be nice to have an epoxy primer thats also buildable if you need it too so you only need one primer for the whole job what about the sealer lets include that too,One primer for all your needs...and lets keep the price down to around 150.00 a gal and an ez 1:1 mix ratio so you actually get two sprayable gal.and when reduced 10-40% it makes a great sealer....and lets have a tech hot line thatcan answear any and all paint related questions for the pro's AND newbies..
Sounds like a dream dont it....
SPI epoxy primer
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:42 AM
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Deadbodyman is right on. I am not a pro but SPI products sure make things easier and the tech support is as good as it gets. It is all I will use.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:19 AM
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And it's flexable too!!!
I use it on all my bumpers and it's reduced the road rash
to almost zero.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:59 PM
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First off nothing sticks like epoxy (spray glue) and as deadbodyman says you can use this particular epoxy (SPI) all the way through start to finish (sealer). One of the latest cars I just did I did use this epoxy as a finish primer over a spray poly instead of the 2K urethane and was quite happy with it, it does block out pretty good. And the savings are quite high as one two gallon setup should be able to do a whole car start to finish.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Your absolutely right ,theres way to many steps and the extra expense plus the drying time between primers,what a PITA... wouldnt it be nice to have an epoxy primer thats also buildable if you need it too so you only need one primer for the whole job what about the sealer lets include that too,One primer for all your needs...and lets keep the price down to around 150.00 a gal and an ez 1:1 mix ratio so you actually get two sprayable gal.and when reduced 10-40% it makes a great sealer....and lets have a tech hot line thatcan answear any and all paint related questions for the pro's AND newbies..
Sounds like a dream dont it....
SPI epoxy primer
I heard. sounds awesome. how does it block and is it pliable as a 2k to withstand rock chips?
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:36 PM
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There are some high end Corvette painters that use only SPI epoxy start to finish and even do their blocking with it..I am a bit lazy and use the Spi epoxy to prime with and their 2k for blocking as the 2k sands a bit easier. Still only 2 primers plus base clear material. Labor is a big part of the deal and the SPI has saved me a great deal of work and heartburn..

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Old 12-26-2012, 01:40 PM
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After just using it as a blocking primer I must say it does sand out pretty well for an epoxy, but I do my heavy blocking with a spray poly. So as far as the epoxy being used as a heavy filling primer, that is not how i use it. When I spray it as a 1 to 1 mix, unreduced I am at a point where everything is already flat and straight so I can start blocking the epoxy with 220. Once you break through the first skin (that has a shine to it) it sands quite easy. And they do claim it has a very good resistance to chipping. Can't really back this claim as I just started as a blocking primer recently (not driven yet).
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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I use it mostly as a sealer or over bare metal before 2K.
For 2K I use Finish 1, great 2K hi-build primer.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
I heard. sounds awesome. how does it block and is it pliable as a 2k to withstand rock chips?
There is no 2K primer that will hold up to rock chips like epoxy does.
Night and day difference. That's the advantage of epoxy "ADHESION"
Go back an read what I said, using epoxy reduced the road rash
to almost zero. (that means a lot)
I used to use 2K, not any more.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Your absolutely right ,theres way to many steps and the extra expense plus the drying time between primers,what a PITA... wouldnt it be nice to have an epoxy primer thats also buildable if you need it too so you only need one primer for the whole job what about the sealer lets include that too,One primer for all your needs...and lets keep the price down to around 150.00 a gal and an ez 1:1 mix ratio so you actually get two sprayable gal.and when reduced 10-40% it makes a great sealer....and lets have a tech hot line thatcan answear any and all paint related questions for the pro's AND newbies..
Sounds like a dream dont it....
SPI epoxy primer
Assist

Southern Polyurethanes Inc.

Last edited by Old Fool; 12-26-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:30 PM
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Thanks for the info. I want to personally and publicly thank Barry at SPI for a lot of helpful info also. I talked to him today and I am very impressed at the customer service he provides and I haven't even had a chance to try their products. I look forward to trying them in the very near future.
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