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Old 04-16-2014, 08:40 AM
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Dual speed fan relays

Hi,
I have an Intrepid dual speed fan on my 66 Fairlane. I've been trying to get it to work with a temperature sensor at the thermostat as well as the manual switches for high and low that I had working before.

This is what I had that worked for the manual switches, but when I tried to splice the wire inline with the manual switch on #86 it didn't work.
LO relay
30 + fused battery
87 radiator fan low speed wire
85 - GROUND
86 manual switch that is also connected to ground (then I tried to add my temp sensor and it all crapped out)

HI relay
30 + fused battery
87 radiator fan high speed wire
85 - GROUND
86 other manual switch that is also connected to ground
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I changed it to the below based on other diagrams that I was seeing online and the fact that the above didn't work right. The high speed switch will illuminate but the fan won't go on high speed. Does the below look right? Would it be better trying something like page 7 here?
(Primary Cooling Fan - Two Speed Type
Using 12 Volt Switching Devices Only for Primary Activation)
http://www.davebarton.com/pdf/coolingfandiagrams.pdf

This is what I have at the moment:
LO relay
30 + fused battery
87 radiator fan low speed wire
85 12v key on power (shared with high relay to 12v)
86 wire split to go to a temperature sensor and a manual switch (grounded and also goes to 12v power, I think it was needed for the switch light but with the way it's wired now it's illuminated even with it unplugged from the 12v)

HI relay
30 + fused battery
87 radiator fan high speed wire
85 12v key on power (same wire as low speed is using)
86 manual switch (grounded and 12v key on)

I haven't tried the temp sensor, so not sure if it works like this or not.

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Old 04-16-2014, 09:47 AM
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When your temp sensor reaches the set temperature does it provide a ground to the sensed wire?
Are you sure the case of the temp sensor is actually grounded.
Actually after going over you information it does not appear the low speed relay would work.
In order to energize the relay on pins 85 and 86 one would need a ground and the other power
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:27 AM
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high OR low

The diagrams you provided on page 7 & 9 should work in your application.
Take notice of the changeover relay. This changeoever relay provides for switching between low and high speed. Your discription does not include a providion for this changeover.
You should test the fan to make sure the high speed and the low speed wires are designed this way.
High speed wire OR low speed wire??? And not high speed wire AND low speed wire???

vicrod
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-bucket23 View Post
When your temp sensor reaches the set temperature does it provide a ground to the sensed wire?
Are you sure the case of the temp sensor is actually grounded.
Actually after going over you information it does not appear the low speed relay would work.
In order to energize the relay on pins 85 and 86 one would need a ground and the other power
It's the thermostat housing. Seems like it should be a good ground. it's a 1 wire type.
Not sure I understand the 85 an 86 idea. One is already power, the other is a switch, I thought that would be the ground.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicrod View Post
The diagrams you provided on page 7 & 9 should work in your application.
Take notice of the changeover relay. This changeoever relay provides for switching between low and high speed. Your discription does not include a providion for this changeover.
You should test the fan to make sure the high speed and the low speed wires are designed this way.
High speed wire OR low speed wire??? And not high speed wire AND low speed wire???

vicrod
The high speed and low speed are separate. Power to a single wire for either will start it in that mode. Any idea why the high speed isn't working as it is? Does that 3rd relay design look best, or would a simpler solution work?
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:40 PM
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drawings

See attached schematics for wiring the 2 speed fan.

One drawing shows a single relay and temp. sensor with a selector switch for high and low speeds. This setup will control the fan in high or low speed depending on which speed is selected. The selector switch will need to be (amp) rated for the full load of the fan.

The other drawing shows (2) relays and (2) temp. sensors that will control the fan in high and low speeds.

Hope that helps.

vicrod
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:55 PM
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With what you have described and what I think you wanted..... here is how I'd wire it, assuming the thermal switch is ground based.

Terminals 85 and 86 are interchangeable. Each are one side of the relay's coil. The toggle switches on the hi side when the thermal switch is closed.

In your explanation, it wouldn't work as you have a +12v on terminal 85 and terminal 86 going to the thermal switch (which is a ground)and 86 is also connected to a +12v via a switch, if the thermal switch goes to ground and the toggle is off it should work, if the toggle is on you should see smoke, as you just provided +12v to a grounded thermal switch etc.....

Are there two input wires, Hi and Lo, on each fan? If so I'll draw up a different diagram....
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicrod View Post
See attached schematics for wiring the 2 speed fan.

One drawing shows a single relay and temp. sensor with a selector switch for high and low speeds. This setup will control the fan in high or low speed depending on which speed is selected. The selector switch will need to be (amp) rated for the full load of the fan.

The other drawing shows (2) relays and (2) temp. sensors that will control the fan in high and low speeds.

Hope that helps.

vicrod
Thanks for the diagrams. With the 2 relays, where you have the temp sensors and override switch, would that just be a wire from 86 spliced to go to both the sensor and the switch? For the high, I would only have a manual switch. Maybe a dumb question but should the switch be anything special? Right now I have the 3 prong illuminated switches from Autozone.

Rob
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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The override switch in the drawing is a double pole, single throw (DPST). Because the relay control points (86) need to be seperated during normal operation.

DPST switches are common. Lighted or not.

The switch you have is a single pole single throw (SPST). Two of that type would work.
Two SPST switches would work as follows.
---One switch (A) would override low speed and other switch (B) would override high speed as long as the low speed switch (A) remains closed.
---If the low speed switch (A) is open and high speed switch (B) is closed, the fan would run in high speed but only when controlled by the low speed temperature sensor.
---If sw (A) is closed and sw (B) is open, the fan will run in low but will still be controlled by the high speed sensor and transfer to high speed if the engine temperature gets to the sensor control point.

vicrod
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:20 PM
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So, last question I hope. I understand the SPST switch is what I have right now for high and low and assuming I go with that how would I hook up the wires to it? Do I have the relay #86 wire going to the accessory blade, and also connect the 12v blade and ground? The extra 12v wire going to the switch is what I can't wrap my head around. Wouldn't it be getting 12v from #85 and from #86 like this? Perhaps, I'm missing basic electrical knowledge that would explain this to me.

Thanks for all the help. I do appreciate it.

Robert
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:17 PM
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The attached revised drawing shows the SPST switches with lights. The lights are powered by 12 volts. This 12 volt power is only for the lights to indicate when the circuit is closed.

The other thing to observe is the lights will indicate when the temp. sensor operates and completes the circuit.

The markings on the switches you have are confusing. Perhaps you have some product data that would help.

vicrod
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