DULL Clearcoat! Big PROBLEM! - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:14 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DULL Clearcoat! Big PROBLEM!

I use Nason Base Paint with Nason Clear coat when I paint. I was wondering? I usually shoot my clear coat 3 times with 15 minutes flash time. The thing that upsets me the most is when I shoot the final clear it's really shinny and then when the clear totally cures it gets dull! What's up with that? Does anyone have a solution to this problem. I've encountered this in a couple of my paint jobs and its getting to the point where I just feel like giving up! Please help! Thanks in advance.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 05:58 AM
da34guy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bumfork, OK
Posts: 481
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 21
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Sounds like yer trappin solvents.
= Puttin it on too soon and to heavy.
Also ---Nason clear is JUNK
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:19 AM
swvalcon's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: rust on lt body shell
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mn
Age: 64
Posts: 1,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
I dont think 15 min is giving you enough time to get solvets out . If your doing a cheapy like say a fender only job try giving it one good wet coat of clear and leave it. If it looks good thats a dead give away. I always give my clear a lot of time between coats anywhere from a 1/2 hr to 45 min. The cooler the shop temp the longer I'll wait.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:19 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,211
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 468 Times in 396 Posts
Theres much better clears out there for the same money but wait a least 30 min after the last base coat and 30 min between clear coats.Thats assuming your base is applied correctly

Last edited by deadbodyman; 03-21-2012 at 06:27 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:26 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,726
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 207 Times in 166 Posts
nason is a 2nd line production clear. it is suppose to look that way. and 3 coats is too much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Process

So, is that the reason why my clear gets dull? I need to give the solvents time? What if the clear coat says 15 minutes flash time? Is 30 minutes really good for each flash? Also If I could get your help with the flash time for Base, clear coats and also what's the shooting PSI for Base and Clear Coat? I really appreciate all the info you guys are giving me. Thank You!

Just to let you know that I'm gonna shoot a car this Thursday and it's gonna be black. Please help with all the info you could give me. What's the best way to shoot this car to make it have the wet glass look, especially with black and what's the shooting distance to not get as much orange peels or runs?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 05:14 PM
swvalcon's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: rust on lt body shell
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mn
Age: 64
Posts: 1,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
When they say 15 that's minimal time under ideal conditions. Something that very rarely happens. Extra time is just good insurance and if your not working in a production type shop where every min is important because of some bean counter take your time and do it right.If your doing a black for sure don't rush it or it will really milk on you. I would call Berry about some of his clear that's just me.A single stage black with a coat of clear will be blacker than a base clear.The way to get that nice wet look to to put it on that way spray it the way you want it to look. The best look is that little window between wet and a run the trick is to learn where that is. If you don't hang a run every now and then your not trying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Help with Clear coat!

What do you mean wet and run trick? And also what would the adjustment be for the gun to shoot clear? Do I open the fluid adjustment up all the way and also the fan adjustment do I open it all the way? Please let me know. Thank you very much for all info and any help! Just to let you know the type of clear I'll be shooting is, Extra Gloss Urethane RSC 220. How would you go about shooting this clear? What Pressure on gun? Also Flash time I'll be shooting In my Garage it's not very controlled with temperature.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Biloxi Mississippi
Posts: 24
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You old Pros let me handle this one. I just sprayed Nison base coat on an Isuzu pup pickup, 2 coats white. I waited over 30 min. and then 2 wet coats of SPI Universal clear and it looks great. For an old retired welder I think it looks real great. That was Sat. I had 3 runs and a little over spray it is sanding out and looking good, so good I ordered a whole gallon of the stuff. I still have the hood, tail gate and the outside of the bed to do , plus another truck just like it. Just follow the directions. As far as telling you how to spray the base coat we would need to know what kind of gun you have. OK old pros how did I do?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2012, 04:58 AM
swvalcon's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: rust on lt body shell
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mn
Age: 64
Posts: 1,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
By wet and run trick. What Ia'm saying is if you want your best gloss theres a spot call it a sweet spot if you want and it's where when you lay your paint down real wet and slick and you have it so wet that its right on the edge of starting to slide into a run. If after a lot of practice you can get your whole paint job to that point thats the best gloss you will get on any job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How i spray nason clear coat.

Get The Booth Hot,the First Coat I Spray On Wet,and I Wait Till The Clear Is Almost Dry And How I Check This Is By Rubbing My Finger On The Masking Paper Or Tape Where There's Enough Clear On It,and If Its Allmost Dry I Give It One Last Coat Wet And Heavy Not To Run It,i Never Go For Three Coats Cause The First Coat Looks Good And When You Throw The Second It Looks Even Better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 03:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
First off, make sure you are using the correct hardener for the temperature just thought I'd make sure you knew about that. Also, swvalcon is exactly right about getting the clear on the verge of running, that gives the best results especially on the first coat with the least amount of peel. A sure sign that you are not letting it flash is something called "solvent popping". You will see little bubbles in the clear that look like carbonated water. Also there is no exact time to wait, lafamiliacustoms bring up a good point, but on that masking paper, you want to wait until the clear is still a little tacky not stringy and you are ready for your next coat. Also adding 10% reducer will help it flow a little better.

As for the dull look, it sounds like it is a problem with the clear coat and/or hardener you are using. I would talk to who ever you bought it from with a test panel to show them. Three coats should not make that much of a difference. Yes the factory only shoots two but I've worked at shops that we used three coats with no issues.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:21 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,182
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 1,163 Times in 1,025 Posts
And here comes another opinion.

Guys, think about this, the clear going dull (die back) is caused by too much solvent being trapped. The top kicks and the trapped solvents escape by breaking thru the top layer and killing it's shine. Just how in the world are you going help end this by painting it so wet it is about to run?

THAT is exactly how you get die back, by piling on too much product too fast trapping solvents. Spraying it on so wet as to almost run is doing just that, it's piling on too much.

If you are getting die back you need to cut back on the amount of solvents trapped in the film. How do you do that?

1. Atomize the clear properly so when it comes out of the gun it hits the panel and the majority of solvent is flashing off.

2. Use a faster pass with less overlap.

3. Leave it longer to flash off between coats.

4. Shoot it in warmer temp shop and METAL TEMP (an ice cold car sprayed in a warm room/booth is no better than a cold room/booth) so the solvents flash properly.

5. Chose the proper reducer and hardener for the metal and booth temp.

6. Apply fewer coats.

One of these could cause an unwanted trapped solvent problem but it is often a combination of a number of them.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:40 PM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,211
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 468 Times in 396 Posts
I with brian,I dont even use clears that need reduction. reducers can cause problems and cheap reducers will cause a lot of problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:44 PM
Localboy808's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Palmdale, Ca
Posts: 145
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Hey Brian, first off I always enjoy reading posts from guys like yourself that I can tell know what they are talking about! You bring up great points. But you got me thinking that the quality of his clear may be a factor. My first paint job came out great. But I'm wondering how I didn't get a dull finish myself. I was using a Matrix brand Euroclear with medium reducer. Well by the time it was time to shoot my clear the weather went bad! Temps dropped to 49deg and it was raining outside! I set up 3 halogen work lights in my garage to try and generate some heat. I didn't want to hold off because of the recoat time coming up. So I went for it. I did wait 45 mins between the two coats of clear. And it was not tacky by the time the second coat went on. I was going to go for a third coat because I did plan on color sanding. But it looked so good after the second I didn't want to chance a third and mess up! . Plus the can said two wet coats. In the end it was enough to color sand and looks great.

From what you are saying I'm suprised my clear did not dull. May e I waited long enough and the heat from the lights helped? Maybe my clear was of better quality than the Nason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
And here comes another opinion.

Guys, think about this, the clear going dull (die back) is caused by too much solvent being trapped. The top kicks and the trapped solvents escape by breaking thru the top layer and killing it's shine. Just how in the world are you going help end this by painting it so wet it is about to run?

THAT is exactly how you get die back, by piling on too much product too fast trapping solvents. Spraying it on so wet as to almost run is doing just that, it's piling on too much.

If you are getting die back you need to cut back on the amount of solvents trapped in the film. How do you do that?

1. Atomize the clear properly so when it comes out of the gun it hits the panel and the majority of solvent is flashing off.

2. Use a faster pass with less overlap.

3. Leave it longer to flash off between coats.

4. Shoot it in warmer temp shop and METAL TEMP (an ice cold car sprayed in a warm room/booth is no better than a cold room/booth) so the solvents flash properly.

5. Chose the proper reducer and hardener for the metal and booth temp.

6. Apply fewer coats.

One of these could cause an unwanted trapped solvent problem but it is often a combination of a number of them.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spray clearcoat over clearcoat, should I sand first? klingfilm Body - Exterior 4 10-14-2009 05:36 PM
sanding clearcoat problem ricksautorestoration Body - Exterior 3 09-08-2009 09:43 PM
a little dull awert Body - Exterior 3 05-30-2008 09:24 PM
Clearcoat problem.... STATUTORY GRAPE Body - Exterior 19 04-03-2007 07:25 PM
Light clearcoat problem moor3061 Hotrodders' Lounge 2 07-06-2004 12:32 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.