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Old 10-09-2012, 09:54 PM
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Dupont 202-83427 aka Pine Ridge Green

Ok paint and body specialists, here is my quandry. I looked up the paint code on my 59 rambler and it came up as Pine Ridge Green and crossed to dupont color 202-83427. the chip i can see online looks darker than the paint in the engine bay and on the door frames. of course the exterior is faded and not a referance. So I am considering painting the car in the factory color.

Now this car will sit OUTSIDE and UNCOVERED. So having said that and being that I am going to attempt to paint the car myself with a cheap gun, what do you suggest? I am not working on the body currently, but I am trying to put togeather a cost budget.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
Ok paint and body specialists, here is my quandry. I looked up the paint code on my 59 rambler and it came up as Pine Ridge Green and crossed to dupont color 202-83427. the chip i can see online looks darker than the paint in the engine bay and on the door frames. of course the exterior is faded and not a referance. So I am considering painting the car in the factory color.

Now this car will sit OUTSIDE and UNCOVERED. So having said that and being that I am going to attempt to paint the car myself with a cheap gun, what do you suggest? I am not working on the body currently, but I am trying to put togeather a cost budget.
Without looking up the colour chip and comparing it to your vehicle it's hard to guess how much darker it is. Even the paint in the door jams and the engine bay will oxidize and appear lighter over the 53 -54 years your car has been around.

You could use Nason single stage if your going Dupont, or Nason base clear(check to see if Dupont has crossed this paint code over to the Nason line). The base clear product should give you more longevity because as the clear looses it's luster, you can polish it, bring back the shine without disturbing the pigment in your colour as you would in a single stage product.

Doing a restoration on a car is never cheap. I would suggest that you use the base clear product, it will cost you a little more in the short term but in the long run it would be cheaper, repairs in the future are easier and you get a better overall finish

Hope this helps
Ray
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:25 PM
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Also, the paint chip on line can be many many shades off to an actual chip at your paint jobber's store. Good idea to go to the jobber and check your colour with an actual chip If they have one, if they don't a good jobber should be able to look at the toners in the formula and give you some indication if the colour is in the ball park. If you still aren't sure, have them mix the smallest amount possible, tell them that if the colour is right you'l buy more, and check the colour.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:40 PM
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Base Clear does not compute in my minimal knowledge of paint. I understand 1 stage no clear coat and 2 stage base and clear coat.

Forgive my ignorance and help me understand the lingo so I dont sound as ignorant at the paint store.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:53 PM
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Base Clear does not compute in my minimal knowledge of paint. I understand 1 stage no clear coat and 2 stage base and clear coat.

Forgive my ignorance and help me understand the lingo so I dont sound as ignorant at the paint store.
No problem, Single stage paint is any paint that the catalyst or the hardner is added to the colour. Base clear is when you simply reduce the base, apply it, and in order to get your shine, you then apply a clear coat with a catalyst or hardner to achieve the gloss your looking for. Base clear in my opinion is easier to use because, if you have metallics you can easily adjust them prior to clearing, single stage you need to even out the metallics while the paint is wet. I don't know if your colour is a metallic colour or not, regardless, base clear is much more forgiving than single stage and more durable.

Happy to answer any other questions and give opinions.

Ray
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:10 PM
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Ok Ray, got it, what do you know about industrial paint? I was talking to a paint guy about my project and he suggested either industrial paint, or the paint they use on semi trucks.

again I am just trying to sort out information from various sources.

also what is the most cost effective method for removing really old bondo

Next what grit should I use when I start stripping the old paint from the body?
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:34 PM
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Ok Ray, got it, what do you know about industrial paint? I was talking to a paint guy about my project and he suggested either industrial paint, or the paint they use on semi trucks.

again I am just trying to sort out information from various sources.

also what is the most cost effective method for removing really old bondo

Next what grit should I use when I start stripping the old paint from the body?
Well, industrial paint or Semi Truck paint is a bit different depending on what brand and product you use. If your on a budget, you may need to rule this product out especially Dupont's Imron, pricey and you need to understand the technique to apply it to get even colour when spraying metallics. PPG does have a product, (in Canada where I'm from it's called Essential) it's cost effective but only available in single stage. Tough product, good gloss and relatively easy to apply. I still believe that automotive base clear would be the way to go. If your looking at a straight industrial paint, it may be difficult to get colour match or even something close to your original colour.

As far as how to remove old bondo, Depending on the tools you have at your disposal, I would recommend cutting it out with a dual action (DA) orbital and 40 grit paper. Set your DA to the position where the pad is turning, not turning and vibrating. In the creases and hard to get at areas, use a firm bristled wire wheel. That should do the job.

To strip old paint from your car, if your using sand paper, use 80 grit on a dual action orbital. Again set it so the pad is only spinning. Keep moving the sander, don't leave it in one spot to long, that way you will avoid heating up a panel and warping it.

Any other questions, fire away.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:24 AM
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I have a
Campbell Hausfeld Rugged Duty Dual Action Sander: PL1504 Air Sander

I picked it up at a yard sale like a year or two ago and never have used it, its almost brand new. I just need to change the air nipple on it so it matches my air hoses.

and I do have an angle grinder, I was going to pick up a couple knotted wire wheels thinking that that may be the best way to get rid of the bondo.

Ok so on the sanding side of things on an old station wagon, how many sticky sand paper disks should I buy? and how often should I change them?
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
I have a
Campbell Hausfeld Rugged Duty Dual Action Sander: PL1504 Air Sander

I picked it up at a yard sale like a year or two ago and never have used it, its almost brand new. I just need to change the air nipple on it so it matches my air hoses.

and I do have an angle grinder, I was going to pick up a couple knotted wire wheels thinking that that may be the best way to get rid of the bondo.

Ok so on the sanding side of things on an old station wagon, how many sticky sand paper disks should I buy? and how often should I change them?
Don't know what kind of compressor you have but it takes a big one to run a DA effectively. You might want to check before you buy a bunch of sandpaper for it.

If it were me I would go the aircraft stripper route with sponge stripping disks for the grinder to finish up.

Very cool looking wagon btw... sure you want to paint it back the original color???
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:36 AM
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Couple tips on paint chips:

Find someone that has an actual card with the chips and look at it. Occasionally they pop up online, there was a company called Walter Miller's Auto Literature here in Syracuse (used to be AutoLit.com). I worked there when I was a kid 1 summer. He has a huge collection of dealer ephemera. Owners Manuals, Dealer brochures, factory paint chips and interior options. If he's still in business, I'm sure he has something.

When you get your paint chip card, look at it INDOORS and OUTSIDE. Sometimes the color will change dramatically. A lot of people think yesterdays colors look 'flat', usually theres no metallics in them. So another option would be to look through the paint books at your local jobber and see if theres a similar, modern color. This would retain the feel of the original car, with a little more visual pop; depends on what you want to do with your car.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
I have a
Campbell Hausfeld Rugged Duty Dual Action Sander: PL1504 Air Sander

I picked it up at a yard sale like a year or two ago and never have used it, its almost brand new. I just need to change the air nipple on it so it matches my air hoses.

and I do have an angle grinder, I was going to pick up a couple knotted wire wheels thinking that that may be the best way to get rid of the bondo.

Ok so on the sanding side of things on an old station wagon, how many sticky sand paper disks should I buy? and how often should I change them?
Nova freak is right, a DA does take an awful lot of air, check the cfm (Cubic Feet per Minute) that your compressor puts out. This is also important when it comes to painting. A paint gun will use as much or more air than your sander.

As far as how many sticky papers you need, I don't know, how much bondo is on your car, how many times has it been painted, is the original paint still on it and is it lacquer. As Nova freak said another option is using air craft stripper, messy, stinky and can burn your skin if you don't use gloves, but it'll strip the paint off your car fairly fast. It'll cost anywhere between $35 and $50 a gallon for quality stripper, but, when quality sticky papers cost 70 cents to a $1.00 a piece or more, you need to way out your options. If the car has a lot of old paint on it, stripper can get expensive, because, it often only takes one layer off at a time. Try a couple of sticky papers first, try a couple of small areas first. If you have only one layer of paint, it may be cheaper to use stripper, multiple layers sand paper may be your best option. Every car is different, substrates are different. I've had cars in front of me and had to analyse the situation carefully as which method would be most cost effective.

Knotted wire wheels, sure give it a shot. If the filler in your car is old style filler, be prepared for a very hard filler. The old stuff (like White Lightning) sanded like concrete. You may need to get more aggressive than a wire wheel depending on what's in there. Many times working on an older car is like asking somebody "how long is the string in your pocket" nobody can really tell until he shows your the string. Cars, you just don't know until you get into it. Lots of variables, but, that's kinda what makes it fun and that's another reason why you take pictures, not just to show the finished product, but to show all the effort it took to get there.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:15 PM
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My air compressor is 30 gallons. As to volume output I'm not sure, but I will buy one sticky pad and try it, if it works for a couple min at a time, that's fine I will just sand, smoke cigar, sand, smoke cigar... Yeah I know factory colors don't really pop, but them again the car is so rare, it pops all by itself!
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:58 PM
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My air compressor is 30 gallons. As to volume output I'm not sure, but I will buy one sticky pad and try it, if it works for a couple min at a time, that's fine I will just sand, smoke cigar, sand, smoke cigar... Yeah I know factory colors don't really pop, but them again the car is so rare, it pops all by itself!
Give it a try for sanding, buy your sticky paper and pad, you may want to buy a big box of cigars because with a 30 gallon reserve tank you may be doing more smoking than sanding. When it comes to painting you will need a compressor with more reserve and generally a small reserve tank means small CFM. You'll be able to make that determination when you prime, try small areas for priming and see if the compressor keeps up. Remember you can't stop in the middle of a paint job and if your compressor is running continuously you need to be concerned about heat, and condensation coming through your air lines. That would mean that all the money you put into paint goes to waste. Just a thought and good luck.

If I can help in the future let me know.

Have a Cigar for me.
Ray
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:00 PM
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By the way I'm an AMC guy as well. Got a couple of late 60's and 1 70 AMX. Gotta love them for their originality.

Ray
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:13 PM
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At the American Legion Meeting last night, I found out the bartenders boyfriend has a paint booth at his house, o I may try to make a trade deal with him for prime and paint. I will do all the prep of course.
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