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Old 11-21-2005, 11:43 AM
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Duramix 4227 & 4229 Seam Sealers

Duramix 4227 & 4229 are self-leveling seam sealers used on drip rails and similar type of areas. I've run into some problems using them and I would like to touch base with someone who has used them.

Can anyone help me out?

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Old 11-21-2005, 01:22 PM
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I haven't had any experience using the duramix brand but quite a few others, what problems are you having? Adhesion? Isn't curing?
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Old 11-21-2005, 02:06 PM
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Two great seam sealers!
4227 is a full flow and 4229 is a controlled flow (will flow for about 10 seconds)

The pointed tip is best to use with both but the regular tip can be used.
Both can be applied over sanded primer, paint, epoxy or bare metal.

Both are paintable in about 30 minutes.

Only three things can go wrong.

1)Make sure both Orpheus's are clear at the end of cartage as any blockage from the smallest speck will screw up cure.

2) the tip point must be submerged as you pump the gun, do not drop it down on the seam, Best just run gun on an angle along the panel.

3) a tip must be used, you cannot hand mix like other products.

I just thought of something else.
I cartage is left in cold 45 degrees or cooler for 4 hours it will thicken up and dispense very hard and have a slower cure.
If this happens, set cartage on heat duck in house for a day or two or put on garage floor under a heat lamp for about 30-60 minutes.
Just letting it set at room Temp will not correct the thickness problem.

Last edited by BarryK; 11-21-2005 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 11-27-2005, 03:23 PM
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The two problems I have run in to is, lack of cure and poor flowout using 4229.

I'm working on a 66 Mustang. The body has been worked to perfection and the only thing left to do is the driprails. Try as I may, I have been unable to match the quality of the driprail work, with the quality of the bodywork. I have used two different single-stage 3M seam sealers that produced a less than desireable finish.

It was suggested I try 4227/4229 seam sealers. When I read the instructions, it appeared the 4229 would be best for my application since the Mustang have front and rear sections of the driprails that slant downward at a 45 degree angle.

The shop, car, and sealer were at approximately 50 degrees. The 4229 went on fairly thick and failed to flatten out completely, leaving a lumpy appearance.

There were also short sections of the sealer that failed to cure completely. Application of heat did not correct the incomplete cure.

I suspect the improper cure resulted from unequal amounts of the product being mixed together. Possibly because the product was too thick (because of the low temp) or because of the starting and stopping that occurred during the application process.

I have dug out all the sections that did not cure and that is where I am at.

My plan is to reapply the 4229 in the repaired areas and then use 4227 over the top of the 4229, along the entire driprail. The plan being that the 4227 would produce the smooth appearance I want to acheive.

What do you think?
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Old 11-27-2005, 06:43 PM
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Thats what I was talking about when the liquid polyurethane get to cold.
Its too thick and must be thinned down like I wrote. Store any new carts inside.
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
My plan is to reapply the 4229 in the repaired areas and then use 4227 over the top of the 4229, along the entire driprail. The plan being that the 4227 would produce the smooth appearance I want to acheive.
What do you think of "the plan"?
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:13 AM
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Your asking for problems and a mess.

You need to get new cartages or warm the the ones you have like I said.

If cartage is good your biggest fight will be to much flowing, not that its not flowing enough.

This is not an unusual deal and if you have a good jobber he will exchange the cartages for you as he can get credit for the frozen ones.
I have seen jobbers do up to 100+ carts a in a month.

Last edited by BarryK; 11-28-2005 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:25 PM
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I probably didn't explain well enough.

80% of the first attempt with the 4229 worked okay. It smoothed out and cured properly. The other 20% either didn't harden up (staying sticky) or was lumpy (didn't flatten out).

I removed all the improperly cured areas and now I'm ready to try it again.

The plan was to fill the areas, that are now empty of sealer, with 4229 and then recoat the entire driprail (the good areas and the repaired areas) with 4227.

Since the 4227 is a thinner product, I thought it might flatten out better, leaving a better appearance. My concern is about the quality of workmanship. Will the 4227 stick to the 4229?

Will 'the plan" work or do I need clean the entire driprail and start from square one?
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:34 PM
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You can scuff the sealer and reseal but you must hand sand with say 180-320.

Something is wrong, because both when laid out will be slicker than glass.
Nothing can be smoother looking.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:57 PM
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I like the flowable sealers for driprails that are long and level but with most models there's usually some verticle areas which require dams and some other tricks. 3M's Urethane UltraproMSP is my choice for these and is easily toolable to any thickness desired. For the flat roof seams and long van sized perimeter drip rails the flowable is much easier though. JMO
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Old 12-14-2005, 07:58 PM
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The 'plan' seemed to work. I cleaned out the areas that didn't cure and filled the repaired areas with Duramix 4229 (the thicker version). Then I went over the entire length of the driprail with Duramix 4227.

Of course, this was all done after proper sanding, the Duramix brought to the proper room temp, and the shop heated.

I took a look at the 3M Urethane UltraproMSP. I really think it would have been the product to use and I plan on using it the next time around. Looks like it's toolable and will make a great looking fill.
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