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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007, 04:58 AM
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low roller,
I conceeded that 427sohc as a factory install is a "fuzzy" subject, gets more fuzzy when you include Shelby.....

here's a link to one of the "authentic original" 427sohc Cobras...(Ford had shipped a bunch of those motors to Holman & Moody)....Shelby and H&M collaberated on building the Lemann cars and the true "R" code cars...

http://www.colinsclassicauto.com/detail.php?car=196

fuzzy= original motor in the Cobra was a H&M sohc 427....????....can you say that is a "stock" Cobra (at about 700hp!) because the motor was available from a Ford dealer but then again a Cobra never wore a "Ford" badge

found some more pic's of the "Ford" built wild and whacky Mustang cars
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Last edited by red65mustang; 09-09-2007 at 05:07 AM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCa/monty
Heres what they had to say about the show i took it strait from the link red65 posted.


We built 3 motors for the show titled “the fastest muscle car engines of all time”. We did an L88 Chevy, a 427 tunnel port FE Ford, and a 426 HEMI for them to dyno test. The motors were to have things done to them that would have been done by places like Yenko, Mr Norms, and so on. I have no idea what kind of spin will be put on this show, but I can assure all you guys that MOPAR will be properly represented. Though the Hemi is a pump gas motor, it may have a couple more twists of the wrench than the others, but don’t tell any of the Chevy or Ford brethren. Everything had to be put together from the parts we had available. The end result should please all you guys. Yes that motor has more work in it than it should, but we used what we had at the shop for motors in progress. (note: a 500 cubic inch short block was in the shop at the time...) Remember television is for entertainment, much like the internet, so don't read too much into it. Also, it's not like it was a secret kept from the production. I worked most of my life in underwater production. Every thing I've ever shot has had some unrealistic spin put on it by, post production, or an executive in the production. Unfortunately in most cases (not saying this is the case here) the people in post don't know the first thing about the subject matter. It's just a fact of TV. Two of the most discrediting things said about anything are: I saw it on TV, or read it on the internet. Enjoy it for what is, have a good laugh, and be glad YOU guys know something the VAST majority of viewers don't.
Interesting 'twist' to the shows plot....although I'm not too surprised.

Wouldn't it be more interesting to have some dyno pulls done with those motors as they were actually originally built? Plus put in 3 or 4 of the big (claimed) hp small blocks powerplants. I figure the hemi would still come out on top, but not so sure about the placement of the rest, especially the 427's.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007, 09:07 AM
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red65mustang:

that cobra got its sohc 427 engine in the mid 70's
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2007, 10:05 AM
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If I put stickers on the back glass of my pickup, that`ll give me 50 horses won`t it?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2007, 12:41 PM
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low roller,

way more likely you are correct on that Cobra....the little that I did find for info on that serial # is it may have been a 428 car original

I did find some way cool sohc 63-1/2 "factory" galaxies lightened for the drags and a 67' Fairlane sohc and..... a run about/ski boat boat mfgr that used atleast one....(LOL 90mph on ski's!)

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2007, 07:08 PM
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All this talk about factory hp specs, I have always wanted to know do the hp numbers you hear now days is that at the crank or rear wheels.
Take a a z06 vette that says 505hp on the fender. Is that at the crank or rear?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2007, 02:15 AM
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smoke,
the advertised hp today is still based on a motor on a stand....but....they must now follow more realistic test and build procedures and have a independent SAE engineer sign off/certify the test results

"back in the day"....they used to pull all kinds of shannagin's...no water pump, no gen/alt, and there was no independent "certification"...just "gross hp"

here's some more info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepo...oss_horsepower

just a comment:
"HP" is almost a worthless number....it basically helps calculate the potential top speed of a car (at Bonneville)...

advertised TQ is a direct measure of available "force" to determine rate of acceleration for a given car weight and gears ratio/tire diameter....at street rpms....which is how you drive a car.....

USA advertising and marketing, has pounded "HP" into our brain....while the rest of the world evaluates car performance based on TQ

Last edited by red65mustang; 09-12-2007 at 02:42 AM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2007, 11:05 AM
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Didn't Buick have a prototype engine in the late 1960s... 455c.i., turbo'd, 800+ lb.ft, and no stock GM transmission to take the Granny Power? Fortunately turbo'd Buicks came in the '80s but with a lot less power. Since they were a threat to the 'vette in terms of performance, they killed the Super Grandma cars, and cranked out regular nonperformance Buicks from there on out

it'd be neat to get my mitts on that... in a 71 GSX.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2007, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleSS_LS6
Didn't Buick have a prototype engine in the late 1960s... 455c.i., turbo'd, 800+ lb.ft, and no stock GM transmission to take the Granny Power? Fortunately turbo'd Buicks came in the '80s but with a lot less power. Since they were a threat to the 'vette in terms of performance, they killed the Super Grandma cars, and cranked out regular nonperformance Buicks from there on out

it'd be neat to get my mitts on that... in a 71 GSX.
Not so sure is the rated Torque was quite that high, but Buick did make a bb in 68 or 69 and put in one of their Skylark models that put out some huge power numbers. They found a turbo400 that would stay together when bolted on behind it I believe.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztoy
Not so sure is the rated Torque was quite that high, but Buick did make a bb in 68 or 69 and put in one of their Skylark models that put out some huge power numbers. They found a turbo400 that would stay together when bolted on behind it I believe.
510 ft. lbs stock, in stage1 trim. (I think the Stage 1s were made late 1960s until 1974, and ultra-rare stage 2 buicks, I think just 70-71 model years). correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 05:07 PM
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800 horsepower on a 60's crate hemi is b.s.

I can see it in a modern super stock race hemi, but the race hemi was not a road engine.

That's like testing and LS-7 big block, an engine that never really hit the road.

Television shows are just that, fiction.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
They were mounted into some original Shelby Cobra's and GT500's (68' Shelby here with one)

Ford did Factory build atleast 10 Mustangs Fastbacks in 65' with sohc motors so the motor could qualift for NHRA stock eliminator class (Dyno Don Nicholson won a Summer Nationals with one)....
If you are aware of a GT500 engine compartment, you would know that they could have never put one in a Mustang. This is not to say that someone hasn't put one in,with an enormous amount of cutting and modifying I might add, It was NEVER a factory install. They would have had to shut down the assembly line for a day to do it. They were also not around the factory any longer, most going to people like Holman & Moody as well as several drag racers.
I believe that the few cars that you are referring to were either Super Stock or A/FX cars( precursor of the Flopper), once again all the mods needed to fit one would have moved it out of the Stock class by a long way. I also don't think SS rules would have allowed it at the time, that's why I believe every door slammer that had a cammer installed was an A/FX car. I recall them well since I drooled over them at the time... they were definitely not Stock Eliminator cars... I think you could say that the cammer Eliminated them from the Stock class.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
low roller,
I conceeded that 427sohc as a factory install is a "fuzzy" subject,
fuzzy= original motor in the Cobra was a H&M sohc 427....????....can you say that is a "stock" Cobra (at about 700hp!) because the motor was available from a Ford dealer but then again a Cobra never wore a "Ford" badge
As a Cobra owner I can tell you both those statements are false, wrong, incorrect and possibly a distortion. If you posted that on Club Cobra they'd have a 50 page ridicule of the comments. Give it a try.
The first Cobra (big block) was a 390 engine( later 427 wedges and many 428 PI engines), the first Cobra was a 221( later 260s and 289s). Once again, as someone pointed out, there was NOT a SOHC engine ever shipped from the airport(Shelby) in ANY car. There was 1 '67 GT500 produced that had a 427..WEDGE, all others were dressed out 428 PI engines.SAAC can verify that if you still need convincing.
Finally, most all Cobras(not sure about the very early ones) had"Powered by Ford" badges right on the front fender( both sides) with the engine size displayed. You can see both of mine and and a couple others in my galley. You can also get the true info about Cobras from SAAC or on Club Cobra.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
........There was 1 '67 GT500 produced that had a 427..WEDGE, .........
I thought there was 3, one being the medium rise gt40 427 and the other two normal 427s
What do you think of this one? 35K miles all original other than plugs and tires(maybe belts and hoses)





Shane
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 08:43 PM
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I can't comment on that exact one, although according to all of the Shelby and SAAC data there was only 1 with a 427 "Super Snake", as it has been labeled. Many others could have been added, but not at the Shelby facility.

<EDIT>; the above statements are what is being stated currently, and it may have to do with all things Shelby. Looking through an older publication(1983) there is a claim that 42 were equipped with them, but that is the only source I have seen with that #. The same book states that some '68s were equipped with 390s, because of 428 shortage. Again, this is the only place I have seen that. It wasn't until after this book was published that SAAC got hold off the production records to come up with the #s they are now using.
< end of edit>

Now, that one may be it, my recollection is that it is that color scheme. As for originality, only so much can be seen in a picture.Like the lower front end blended together..not original. Details can't be seen in pics, so a close examination would be needed be sure that it is a 427, instead of the regular 428.If you supplied the #'s off the head, the block # as well as casting date
and assembly date stamp, I could tell you. All FE engines look the same when
dressed out,but a non production 427 emblem does not a 427 make, those things are everywhere. That's what the initial discussion is about,not what has been done. Because Shelbys were routinely modified, the judging is less critical of originality as long as they are era available items.
Again, if that IS a factory produced 427 GT500 then it is the only one,which would make it the Super Snake. That car sold for considerable $$ just last year. I am working on a '67 GT500 currently that has been owned by the same guy since 1977. He assured me that it was all "original". Since the engine block wasn't made until a year after his cars production, it couldn't be original. Casting #'s and date codes can't hide the truth. I have very little exposure to "original" cars since everyone thinks theirs is and too few are. I do know an original 1965 GT350, still with the original buyer. I also know of an original 289 Cobra, however the owner passed away about 2 years ago and is now in the custody of his offspring, so it may no longer be. He still had bird crap on it from the 60s...he called it "patina".
I would be interested in the specifics of that car so I can run it by the SAAC people.
If that is an original 427 a Marti report will give all that info as well as the original Mustang chassis # it was built on.

Last edited by woodz428; 02-01-2008 at 09:06 PM.
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