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Dyno pulls on factory engines

29K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  woodz428 
#1 ·
Late last night on the speed channel, I`m not sure what show it was, but it was showing dyno pulls on factory high performance engines. The contenders were The chevy 409 with dual carter 4 bbls. The pontiac Super Duty 421. The Ford 427, the chevy "mystery motor" 427, The infamous 426 Hemi with dual 4 bbls. They took engines that were built to factory specs and used blue print cams. The 409 was rated at 409 horsepower, it`s dyno pull showed 405 horsepower or maybe 402. The super duty 421, I forget it`s power rating, also came in somewhere in the 400 plus range. The Ford 427 screamed over to 600 horsepower. The chevy 427 kicked out over 500 horses. The 426 Hemi kicked out a amazing over 800 horsepower. When the show came on and they showed the contenders, I knew the Hemi would take all, and I was sure the Ford 427 would take second. I was also thinking since they wanted to dyno test the engines that were considered king of the streets, why wasn`t there a LS6 454 in the mix? I doubt that even it could hang with the Ford 427 and the 426 Hemi but I also thought it would put out more than the 427 Chevy did. I had always hoped to see a show like that and I enjoyed it. They mentioned that they will do more engines later, It would be nice to see a 375 horse 327, and L79 327, a boss 302, a boss 351, the LT1 350, the 340 Magnum, as well as many other historical small blocks. My instructor from college always said, if you wanna go fast, you build a Chrysler, it looks like he was right in spades.
 
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#5 ·
DoubleVision said:
The 426 Hemi kicked out a amazing over 800 horsepower. When the show came on and they showed the contenders,.
I know stock more than the rated 425, but not 900, that's way too high.

They should have dyno'd other engines, the early 1970s LT1 350, aforementioned ls6, and the l88 425(rated) hp 427, the 375hp-327v8, oh... zillions of others as well. If they want me to watch, kill the drama and crap :embarrass and let's fire up that dyno! :thumbup:
 
#6 ·
That`s the same thing I said in my first post, I want to see the small blocks give it a whirl. I don`t believe everything I read or see either, These were all measured at the flywheel, with the best power curve and so on, I knew the Hemi was one of the baddest on the streets in it`s day, I wasn`t too sure I believed it nailed 800 horses. I`ve never seen one and what it could do at events, but I have seen what a 440 6 pack could do at the drag races years ago, if I recall correctly in was in a challenger, but I don`t know dodge cars real well, but I`d know it if I seen it, this car was a daily driver, and it took a friend of mine`s roller cammed 454 twice. Years ago in the mud racing days, we had a fellow show up in a old 64 chevy pickup body on a 4x4 frame, under the flip forward hood was a ford 427. I had never really seen one until then, his first run wasn`t good, it busted and ran crappy, the second run, it was still busting but not as bad, and it took 1st place, and that was against 7 other trucks. These guys were from out of town and it would be the first and last time they raced there, but I sure could wish I could see that again, good thing I got the video tapes to reflect on.
 
#7 ·
the only engine ever that was factory produced that made that kind of power was the 427sohc (ford ) it was a door prize engine never factory installed and factory rating on it wa 786hpat4600rpms and 964ft pounds at 2800 rpms and thats strait out the the chiltions engine manual dated winter 1973
 
#8 ·
oldschoolmudman said:
the only engine ever that was factory produced that made that kind of power was the 427sohc (ford ) it was a door prize engine never factory installed and factory rating on it wa 786hpat4600rpms and 964ft pounds at 2800 rpms and thats strait out the the chiltions engine manual dated winter 1973


so, how did Chilton get #'s on a motor that was never installed on a production car?

Second, 786 @ 4600...tha motor wasnt close to peak at that point in the rpm band
 
#9 ·
The Hemi numbers are totally out to lunch. As delivered, their 425 rating was not far off. However, 500 was there for the taking with just some good dyno-tuning. With both in stock form, the 440 Six-Pack would edge the Hemi in the 1/4 mile. It's 390 HP rating was much more under-rated than the Hemi's 425 number.
The 427 Ford numbers are a complete joke too, unless they indeed were testing the SOHC. The best FE 427s ever made were indeed hot engines, but as delivered they were nowhere near those numbers, not even the ones in the Thunderbolts.
It is too bad that they didn't test an LS6. They were factory rated at 450 I believe and it's said they actually made 500 right out of the box. Those were the days!
 
#10 ·
chiltions guide to performance and drivability..... and by the way just because an engine was never installed in a production vechicle dosent mean there wasnt any literature on it. it isnt area 51 just an engine with an 8and 1/2 ft timing chain.....dont belive me ok but just to let ya know i do know some one who owns and runs one in a 23 t bucket...
 
#11 · (Edited)
Ford sohc 427 was offered as a OEM $2500(?) "dealer installed option" for many models (there is a 64 Galaxie here with one, the owner says the dealer was trying to get the State Police to buy them, didn't happen, due to chain problems)

They were mounted into some original Shelby Cobra's and GT500's (68' Shelby here with one)

Ford did Factory build atleast 10 Mustangs Fastbacks in 65' with sohc motors so the motor could qualift for NHRA stock eliminator class (Dyno Don Nicholson won a Summer Nationals with one)....

there were a bunch of (different) factory experimental (Ford oem blessed) A/FX cars built with sohc 427's (Gas Ronda did mid 8's at 160 with one) Phil Bonner, Bill Lawton, Dick Brannen are a few others....

so......was it a stock motor????.......kinda "fuzzy"....kinda like a Yenko?

here's the HP spec's on all of the 427 family:
http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=133

and a few pic's

ps: Chrysler was woppin' Fords butt in the Grand National races was why they did it to begin with...it got outlawed pretty quick....so it became a "where else can we use one motor" that they had spent $$$$$$ to design and build
 

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#12 · (Edited)
here's the skinny on the motors on that show from the show producer....about half way down the page.....(as usual, a "reality" show is total BS)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine

simple logic should have told you 800hp was a joke cause....

it only takes 600hp for a 10 second 3200 lb car.....
800hp would do 9's in a stock 3400 car.....
60's stock class ran around 13's....super stock was 12's...roughly
 
#13 ·
426 hemi

Hi,i just read the above mentioned wiki,whereas the person who built those engines,said they used parts they had laying around,including a bored and stroked 426 hemi that turned out to be a 500 cu in engine...WOW,thats about as far from stock as you could get. and i still dont believe they got 800 ponies. i had a 426 hemi in a 1969 charger, helluva engine,but as ive said before,NOWHERE near 800 ponies. i had 2-- 4 brls and a wild cam (i think it was the purple one) not too sure on the cam,as its only been 38 years. the TV program saying they got 800 hp,is about as believable,as me saying i got 150 hp out of my STOCK 12 hp Kohler engine in my 1966 king midget. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
#14 ·
Heres what they had to say about the show i took it strait from the link red65 posted.


We built 3 motors for the show titled “the fastest muscle car engines of all time”. We did an L88 Chevy, a 427 tunnel port FE Ford, and a 426 HEMI for them to dyno test. The motors were to have things done to them that would have been done by places like Yenko, Mr Norms, and so on. I have no idea what kind of spin will be put on this show, but I can assure all you guys that MOPAR will be properly represented. Though the Hemi is a pump gas motor, it may have a couple more twists of the wrench than the others, but don’t tell any of the Chevy or Ford brethren. Everything had to be put together from the parts we had available. The end result should please all you guys. Yes that motor has more work in it than it should, but we used what we had at the shop for motors in progress. (note: a 500 cubic inch short block was in the shop at the time...) Remember television is for entertainment, much like the internet, so don't read too much into it. Also, it's not like it was a secret kept from the production. I worked most of my life in underwater production. Every thing I've ever shot has had some unrealistic spin put on it by, post production, or an executive in the production. Unfortunately in most cases (not saying this is the case here) the people in post don't know the first thing about the subject matter. It's just a fact of TV. Two of the most discrediting things said about anything are: I saw it on TV, or read it on the internet. Enjoy it for what is, have a good laugh, and be glad YOU guys know something the VAST majority of viewers don't.
 
#15 ·
red65mustang said:
They were mounted into some original Shelby Cobra's and GT500's (68' Shelby here with one)
first 427 cobra to get a FACTORY INSTALLED SOHC 427 was actualy one of the continuation series

all others had something else between the frame rails when the cars rolled out of Venice / Torrance
 
#16 · (Edited)
low roller,
I conceeded that 427sohc as a factory install is a "fuzzy" subject, gets more fuzzy when you include Shelby.....

here's a link to one of the "authentic original" 427sohc Cobras...(Ford had shipped a bunch of those motors to Holman & Moody)....Shelby and H&M collaberated on building the Lemann cars and the true "R" code cars...

http://www.colinsclassicauto.com/detail.php?car=196

fuzzy= original motor in the Cobra was a H&M sohc 427....????....can you say that is a "stock" Cobra (at about 700hp!) because the motor was available from a Ford dealer but then again a Cobra never wore a "Ford" badge

found some more pic's of the "Ford" built wild and whacky Mustang cars
 

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#17 ·
ElCa/monty said:
Heres what they had to say about the show i took it strait from the link red65 posted.


We built 3 motors for the show titled “the fastest muscle car engines of all time”. We did an L88 Chevy, a 427 tunnel port FE Ford, and a 426 HEMI for them to dyno test. The motors were to have things done to them that would have been done by places like Yenko, Mr Norms, and so on. I have no idea what kind of spin will be put on this show, but I can assure all you guys that MOPAR will be properly represented. Though the Hemi is a pump gas motor, it may have a couple more twists of the wrench than the others, but don’t tell any of the Chevy or Ford brethren. Everything had to be put together from the parts we had available. The end result should please all you guys. Yes that motor has more work in it than it should, but we used what we had at the shop for motors in progress. (note: a 500 cubic inch short block was in the shop at the time...) Remember television is for entertainment, much like the internet, so don't read too much into it. Also, it's not like it was a secret kept from the production. I worked most of my life in underwater production. Every thing I've ever shot has had some unrealistic spin put on it by, post production, or an executive in the production. Unfortunately in most cases (not saying this is the case here) the people in post don't know the first thing about the subject matter. It's just a fact of TV. Two of the most discrediting things said about anything are: I saw it on TV, or read it on the internet. Enjoy it for what is, have a good laugh, and be glad YOU guys know something the VAST majority of viewers don't.
Interesting 'twist' to the shows plot....although I'm not too surprised.

Wouldn't it be more interesting to have some dyno pulls done with those motors as they were actually originally built? Plus put in 3 or 4 of the big (claimed) hp small blocks powerplants. I figure the hemi would still come out on top, but not so sure about the placement of the rest, especially the 427's.
 
#20 ·
low roller,

way more likely you are correct on that Cobra....the little that I did find for info on that serial # is it may have been a 428 car original

I did find some way cool sohc 63-1/2 "factory" galaxies lightened for the drags and a 67' Fairlane sohc and..... a run about/ski boat boat mfgr that used atleast one....(LOL 90mph on ski's!)

Red
 

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#22 · (Edited)
smoke,
the advertised hp today is still based on a motor on a stand....but....they must now follow more realistic test and build procedures and have a independent SAE engineer sign off/certify the test results

"back in the day"....they used to pull all kinds of shannagin's...no water pump, no gen/alt, and there was no independent "certification"...just "gross hp"

here's some more info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#SAE_gross_horsepower

just a comment:
"HP" is almost a worthless number....it basically helps calculate the potential top speed of a car (at Bonneville)...

advertised TQ is a direct measure of available "force" to determine rate of acceleration for a given car weight and gears ratio/tire diameter....at street rpms....which is how you drive a car.....

USA advertising and marketing, has pounded "HP" into our brain....while the rest of the world evaluates car performance based on TQ
 
#23 ·
Didn't Buick have a prototype engine in the late 1960s... 455c.i., turbo'd, 800+ lb.ft, and no stock GM transmission to take the Granny Power? Fortunately turbo'd Buicks came in the '80s but with a lot less power. Since they were a threat to the 'vette in terms of performance, they killed the Super Grandma cars, and cranked out regular nonperformance Buicks from there on out :(

it'd be neat to get my mitts on that... in a 71 GSX. :thumbup:
 
#24 ·
ChevelleSS_LS6 said:
Didn't Buick have a prototype engine in the late 1960s... 455c.i., turbo'd, 800+ lb.ft, and no stock GM transmission to take the Granny Power? Fortunately turbo'd Buicks came in the '80s but with a lot less power. Since they were a threat to the 'vette in terms of performance, they killed the Super Grandma cars, and cranked out regular nonperformance Buicks from there on out :(

it'd be neat to get my mitts on that... in a 71 GSX. :thumbup:
Not so sure is the rated Torque was quite that high, but Buick did make a bb in 68 or 69 and put in one of their Skylark models that put out some huge power numbers. They found a turbo400 that would stay together when bolted on behind it I believe.
 
#25 ·
ztoy said:
Not so sure is the rated Torque was quite that high, but Buick did make a bb in 68 or 69 and put in one of their Skylark models that put out some huge power numbers. They found a turbo400 that would stay together when bolted on behind it I believe.
510 ft. lbs stock, in stage1 trim. (I think the Stage 1s were made late 1960s until 1974, and ultra-rare stage 2 buicks, I think just 70-71 model years). correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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