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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 09:53 AM
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[QUOTE=eatonde]Instead of trying to piece together a 69' 302, I think you should send me a PM so I can just hook you up with the real thing. I know where 2 DZ blocks and sets of heads can be had. I'm not sure what my engine guy wants for the short blocks, but he told me he'd sell me the heads for $300. I can find out though, if you'd like.... Both motors will more then likely need re-built, cleaned, and painted. Not sure if you can still get the same paint they got, but they are some kind of yellow. Let me know if your interested.



If the that is some real 302 stuff someone should buy that up,It will bring Big money, The 302 would look much better in his 69.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Bogie, I was nodding my head in agreement all he way up to the point where you limited Vortec heads to 9.5:1 on 93 octane. They can go slightly over that limit with 87 octane.

Still many good points though.
I've tried and tried and can't get Vortecs to run 9.5 on regular unleaded without extra rich mixtures and or less than ideal amounts and rates of advance. This being street cruisers with high final gearing.

Bogie
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 12:36 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
I've tried and tried and can't get Vortecs to run 9.5 on regular unleaded without extra rich mixtures and or less than ideal amounts and rates of advance. This being street cruisers with high final gearing.

Bogie

That's odd, its never a problem for me. I've had other factory iron heads run on it too. It may be the gas you use, or bad ring seal, or something else maybe? Also, how far do you run your timing? They don't need as much as the older castings.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 12:44 PM
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Better tighten up Bogie
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 02:52 PM
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As has been stated, leave the car as it is, it's worth a heap more money than what you want to do with it.

Vince
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2008, 08:06 AM
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I agree with Bogie.
Limits can be pushed higher,
but there are too many variables to make sweeping statements beyond what Bogie stated.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Why did Chevrolet start putting the 350 in the 1970 Z28's ... :
Because the SCCA rule change of allowing the use of larger than 305 cubic inch engines to be DESTROKED for competition use came into effect for 1970. Previous to 1970, the under-305 cube enguine had to be OEM.

So GM could run the 350 in its production cars, while simply throwing a 3" crank in the 350 block to run a 302 which is under the 305 cube SCCA displacement rule.

1969 and back, the under-305 cube enguine had to be OEM.

Its the same reason why Chrysler only started racing in 1970 using their Plymouth AAR íCuda & Dodge T/A Challenger and 340 cube engine.

But that was racing,


On the street, the OEMs saw the future emissions strangleholds coming. Larger cube, low compression engine would be needed. Small displacement high compression engines running leaded fuels would become a thing of the past.
Now with todays technology, the high compression large displacement engines are back. blown 620 SAE LS9's and 505hp 427's are all the rage from GM.


Its easy to build a 302 today. Simply get a nice roller 96-02 GEN 1E Vortec 350 roller cam block, and drop a 1994-96 GEN 2 L99 4.3l V8 3" stroke crank in it. With the Vortec heads, it would be a nice performer IMO.
To be 100% sure you will get all the roller cam goodies in a GEN 1 350 block, the 350 has to be from: a 1987-91 Vette, 87-92 F-body or 1996-02 truck/van. the 87-95 trucks/vans are all equipped with the 3 mount pads in the valley for the lifter retainer spider plate, but very few actually had the roller cam installed. Its hit or miss from 87-95 if you'll get a roller cam.

peace
Hog

Last edited by Hogg; 11-15-2008 at 08:51 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2008, 08:51 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg
Because the SCCA rule change of allowing the use of larger than 305 cubic inch engines to be DESTROKED for competition use came into effect for 1970. Previous to 1970, the under-305 cube enguine had to be OEM.

So GM could run the 350 in its production cars, while simply throwing a 3" crank in the 350 block to run a 302 which is under the 305 cube SCCA displacement rule.

1969 and back, the under-305 cube enguine had to be OEM.

Its the same reason why Chrysler only started racing in 1970 using their Plymouth AAR íCuda & Dodge T/A Challenger and 340 cube engine.

But that was racing,


On the street, the OEMs saw the future emissions strangleholds coming. Larger cube, low compression engine would be needed. Small displacement high compression engines running leaded fuels would become a thing of the past.
Now with todays technology, the high compression large displacement engines are back. blown 620 SAE LS9's and 505hp 427's are all the rage from GM.


Its easy to build a 302 today. Simply get a nice roller 96-02 GEN 1E Vortec 350 roller cam block, and drop a 1994-96 GEN 2 L99 4.3l V8 3" stroke crank in it. With the Vortec heads, it would be a nice performer IMO.

peace
Hog
Yea, but finding that L99 crank is almost as hard as finding one from an original 302. And why not the LT1 block?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2008, 09:45 PM
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The 302 is very good in a lightweight car, like mine. 2100#.
Really happy way up there in the revs. It really starts to pull over 4K. Keeps it well mannered for everyday driving.
Its more like driving an import car, which is why I went with it, being its in a Porsche an all..

Besides, the lower torque keeps the transaxle alive, and everyone has the 350, 383, etc, I really wanted to do something different.

In theory I should have built a small journal 302, less friction on the crank journal, but I did a DZ.

It goes straight, turns and stops with the best oif them, even more fun than a Viper.

Mark



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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:24 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Mark, that's a nice looking engine, nce color of paint, even fairly nice rims... but why that body style?

To each their own. Nice valve covers though!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Mark, that's a nice looking engine, nce color of paint, even fairly nice rims... but why that body style?

To each their own. Nice valve covers though!
Here's why:
Mid engine (not rear) 4 wheel independant suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, light weight, inexpensive
Why not? Mostly to piss people off, everyone hates my car:
The Porsche guys hate it because its a 914, the 914 guys hate it because it has a v8, here in Detroit, the hot rodders hate it because its a Porsche, The guys at the track in z06s, 930s, and vipers really hate it when I can run laps around them. When I tell people I only have $12Kk into it, they hate it even more.

If I had some rear rubber on it, I could probably break into the 11s.
Mark
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:38 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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I guess I understand that. Its kind of the same reason I built a trail rig out of a 2wd S10. It was cheap and different.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:44 PM
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HEY I LIKE IT.!!!!!!!! I'd drive it.

Why didn't I think of that?
In fact, we have a Fiat in the body shop now for a complete body do, and I suggested a small block for it last Thursday and everybody laughed. Well, it IS a Fiat.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:48 PM
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"It really starts to pull over 4K. Keeps it well mannered for everyday driving."

This sounds like an oxymoron to me.

I do like your car though. What's not to like, right?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
"It really starts to pull over 4K. Keeps it well mannered for everyday driving."

This sounds like an oxymoron to me.

I do like your car though. What's not to like, right?

Its well mannered below 4K, when driving around town; then the power comes on up high, when I need it.

Mark
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