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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxxwedge
Hi All, After spending quite a bit of time reading all these posts concerning
Eaton Compressor and specifically Matt Cain, I felt the need to register and throw my two cents in. .........................
Oh and I am not gonna hide behind a pseudonym, My name is Brion, My email addy is maxxxwedge@aol.com
I welcome anyone to debate my reasoning.
I'm not going to waste a lot of band width quoting all the drivel this guy posted. Let me just say this.....


IT'S TOTAL


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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:52 AM
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I think Maxxwedge was suggesting the same that I was going to.I wouldn't be surprised if some/many of the components in any American made product are for offshore..the politicians set up the loop holes that allow a product be labled "American Made" when it is not entirely. There were several references given and they are valid. I think that everyone that wants to but "American" should give a closer look at the things they buy. As mfg. costs have increased ALL the companies are looking toward cheaper labor to remain "competitive". Just because you don't see "Made in XXXX" doesn't mean that inside there aren't parts from there. There are, unfortunately, very few things that are completely made in the U.S. It is the elected bozos that have altered what the term "Made in the USA" means to allow this to occur. I am not saying that the companies wouldn't be moving in that direction, but when you allow them to label it as such because of "content" then you are encouraging them to. I am not a fan of any bail outs...screw them, they were making money by cutting corners whenever and whereever they could...now they need to bite the bullet like anyone.
This isn't any support of "thug" like tactics, more notice that just because it says" Made in the U.S." doen't make it so...sorry.
I think that an attempt to hush the dispersal of the "truth" is as unamerican as claiming something that is not. It's the PT Barnum syndrome applied to mass marketing.
I've been around long enough to remember when few people had compressors/welders and other tools of the trade...unless that WAS your trade. When you purchase tools to support your livelihood, you are looking at long term and look at the amount over a career. As more people got into it as a hobby and the demand increased, they were unwilling or unable to spend the large $$ that many of us have spent over the years. Probably as much because they want to do it all at once. I have about $80,000+ worth of equipment I have bought since 1969( some before), and it was pricey...very pricey...but it was all american made. I have as much money in tools/equipment as many have in their houses. But, I do it for a living and most hobbyist aren't willing to spend that kind of dollars for a hobby...some do...but the majority won't. So, the companies had to find a way to make less expensive equipment...or at least... make some money from what would be a growing import market anyway. Our beloved legislators just made it much easier and now almost everything has some foreign content. Personally, I found it disturbing that the HD riders were pissed when they found that the aluminum wheels they used were from Japan. They were appeased when they switched over to an Australian supplier??? that's still not American, what difference does it make? If it is made anywhere but here it's still offshore and too much focus is placed on the Asian imports. Mexico as well as other economic depressed countries also supply things...."Hecko en Mexico" isn't a greeting. The politicians WANT a one world government and this is how they are developing it.
So there is plenty of blame to go around, however, attempting to quelch info because it is unflattering to your "American made" product is BS.

Last edited by woodz428; 01-12-2009 at 07:58 AM.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 08:27 AM
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....also very interesting ..... two newbies with no posts here before these. Anyone check IP's to find out "who" they are??

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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:01 AM
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To the above posters with "zero" post count....Nice read As far as the "Buy American" B.S....if you can find it, buy it. Most major companies have went overseas to compete. We are stuck with it for awhile. Probably for a long time to come. But when you buy, buy an item that has stricter quality control than the next guy. Maybe Eaton does have Chinese manufacturing, but they have a reputable name and have had for years. Their quality standards are going to be considerabely more than say someplace like HF and their compressors. A lot of items that you think are American Made are not. Look close at the packaging....Made in America with Global components. We might as well face it, it is the way of the US now and everyone is doing it. You want American Made, start buying Snap-On tools and brand names like that. for the average person that does a little wrenching on the side, they are out of reach. So the common person has to step down a little and get the American branded tool that has better quality but made overseas. It boils down to smart shopping. Even Snap-On has their name on some overseas items now, so what does that tell you? But the mindset of "buy American or don't buy at all" is bull in my mind. You just can't do it today.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin45
As far as the "Buy American" B.S....if you can find it, buy it. Most major companies have went overseas to compete. We are stuck with it for awhile. Probably for a long time to come.

But the mindset of "buy American or don't buy at all" is bull in my mind. You just can't do it today.
Damn, I was feeling like an outsider when I read that the poster I had agreed with was a newbie....sounded like a plant when I read it though. Maybe someone that works for Eaton??

Kevin45 pretty much elaborated more on my position. That still doesn't mean that I have forgotten the Constitution, IT IS AMERICAN made. Freedom of speech isn't for those that say what we want to hear, it is for those that say what we DON'T want to hear. So if the owner of EATON doesn't want to hear the truth, as it is, he can do 1 of 2 things...ignore it or act to change it. Just the facts,ma'am, just the facts.
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
....also very interesting ..... two newbies with no posts here before these. Anyone check IP's to find out "who" they are??

Dave W
He is using AOL and since ALL their IP addresses use a proxy in Kansas its impossible to positively lock down his address. So.... my guess is that he's an employee of Eaton, especially given the knowledge he has of Preble county Ohio.


Yes, buy American when ever you can..... and when it comes to compressors you CAN BUY AMERICAN.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryH
I think most are aware of the realities of manufacturing today, and that wasn't the focus of the criticism of this thread... at least the part that was important to me.

It seems pretty clear that the primary problem here was a threat to sue/intimidation tactics to try to get the name of a poster out of a forum moderator without going through the proper legal channels. Well... that and the oddity that the original poster here was quoting a thread on another forum and didn't really appear to libel the company or Matt in any way.

If there is a valid case for defamation, file it and the court will issue a subpoena to obtain the name of the poster. You don't converse with a forum moderator and make goonish threats.

A better course altogether would have been to get an account here and the other forum where this was posted and just lay out the truth from Eaton's perspective. Unfortunately the strategy employed came across as trying to silence all detractors by unreasonable means.

I also realize that folks can often get very upset, protective, myopic, etc. when it comes to their companies. So I think what allegedly happened here (re: threat) was forgivable had he just come back and said that ... "sorry I got carried away".

As far as I know that didn't happen.

Their business model is an attractive one for an enthusiast, serious home hobbyist, and one off shop owner - you get to pick your tank, pick your motor, pick your pump, and pick your color. I wouldn't rule out buying from them in the future, but I have to say that the events recorded here squelched my initial enthusiasm about buying there and caused me to look at other options.

Exactly. Nailed it.
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:57 AM
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[QUOTE=Centerline]He is using AOL and since ALL their IP addresses use a proxy in Kansas its impossible to positively lock down his address. So.... my guess is that he's an employee of Eaton, especially given the knowledge he has of Preble county Ohio.



Wow, so I guess your stand is if anyone disagrees with your personal views, they must be an Eaton employee?
My "knowledge" of Eaton city and Preble county came simply from reading the ohio forum that Your forum's link led me too.... Both sides of that issue were discussed in depth.
I am Born and raised in Wisconsin. I live in Waterown WI, 53094. 1/2 way between Madison and Milwaukee on I94. Been living in this particular burg for 10 years May 15 of this year. Previously Lived in Oconomowoc on Oconomowoc Lake, 16 miles east of here. In a house that was part of the old Armour Meat estate (armour hotdogs) on the west side of the lake. Grew up in Waukesha WI. Lived on most of the lakes in this area for most of my adult life. Ask me, I can assure you I have knowledge on this area only a lifelong resident would have.
Since you seem to be basing your claim of my being an employee on these two points, (1) I am defending Eaton Compressor (2) my "knowledge" of the ohio area. Hopefully this will convince your paranoid mind that I am NOT an employee.
If Eaton Compressor is as bad as you guys are claiming, I guess I should take that accusation of being an employee secretly defending Matt's business as a defamation of character.... LOL
Hmmmm, now where did I put my lawyer's phone number....
For you paranoid folks, that's NOT a threat. It simply is a tongue in cheek comment. Try to have an open mind.
I have been through Ohio on nummerous times on my way east to fetch something I bought out east that was too expensive to ship. But other than getting stranded in Toledo on a Valentine's days Blizzard a while back, I have never stopped there for anything more than gas or a potty stop.
One theme I see stated over and over is Your site's defending of "Free speech" Yet it seems anyone with an opposing view from yours is "suspect" as being a plant? What the hell kind of paranoid nazi crap is that????
If you had read my initial post you should have caught that I did agree with
your refusal to divulge the name of the person who started all this. So I am neither for or against either side.
Just calling it all as I see it.
Brion
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:44 PM
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Maxxwedge -- he said very clearly that it's his "guess". Judging from the long history of similar confrontations on this forum, it's not a bad guess at all. In fact, I believe we previously had a "mystery" person on here who was indeed surreptitiously defending Eaton Compressor behind a legitimately questionable identity. So, if we're a little suspicious, please forgive.

Let's drop it, and focus on the issues. Play the ball, not the man -- and that goes for everyone. This isn't about parts being "Made in China", and too much focus on that tangent will obfuscate the central issue here.

Also, let's all be mindful of Godwin's law.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:22 PM
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Yes Jon, he did state it was his guess. But that statement was purely meant to belittle and dismiss my previous post as being BS. In fact he flew a cute little BS flag..... and called it all drivel.
Excuse me but ain't a "moderator" by definition supposed to be a neutral overseer?
Let me put forth the idea that everyone is being waaaay too over zealous here.
The guy who posted his concerns that he may have bought "china junk" despite glowing reviews of the product, company, and it's product support by anyone who has ever dealt with them. Wringing his hands publicly about a product he has not even seen yet.
Matt who perceived this statement as being a threat. And responded with same. And yet it seems his concerns were well founded by all the flag waving good ol boys patting each other on the butt and chanting in unison to only buying "murican" Good luck. If you walk out in your yard and grab a handful of grass growing there, that's about the only made in America these days. Sad reality.
You yourself in response to Matt's response/threat. With questions about the validity of some 60% law.....??? and numerous other statements. Maybe you're a bit gun-shy from previous confrontations?
Centerline's departing from a supposed moderator position to call a poster's response as BS from a suspected employee. If this moderator has personal views that depart from a moderators position, he should be posting them as a private person. NOT as a "moderator" Makes his responses look too official
for a personal opinion.
See where I am going here???
Jeez, everyone seems to be needing a friggin hug these days to reassure their little world.
Too much dick wavin going on here.....
No I am not volunteering to be the hugger... LOL
I did welcome debating my views, I guess I asked for it....
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:37 PM
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Jeez...........Just too frickin' hilarious. Someone states their viewpoint and...........
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxxwedge
Yes Jon, he did state it was his guess. But that statement was purely meant to belittle and dismiss my previous post as being BS. In fact he flew a cute little BS flag..... and called it all drivel.
Excuse me but ain't a "moderator" by definition supposed to be a neutral overseer?
Let me put forth the idea that everyone is being waaaay too over zealous here.
The guy who posted his concerns that he may have bought "china junk" despite glowing reviews of the product, company, and it's product support by anyone who has ever dealt with them. Wringing his hands publicly about a product he has not even seen yet.
Matt who perceived this statement as being a threat. And responded with same. And yet it seems his concerns were well founded by all the flag waving good ol boys patting each other on the butt and chanting in unison to only buying "murican" Good luck. If you walk out in your yard and grab a handful of grass growing there, that's about the only made in America these days. Sad reality.
You yourself in response to Matt's response/threat. With questions about the validity of some 60% law.....??? and numerous other statements. Maybe you're a bit gun-shy from previous confrontations?
Centerline's departing from a supposed moderator position to call a poster's response as BS from a suspected employee. If this moderator has personal views that depart from a moderators position, he should be posting them as a private person. NOT as a "moderator" Makes his responses look too official
for a personal opinion.
See where I am going here???
Jeez, everyone seems to be needing a friggin hug these days to reassure their little world.
Too much dick wavin going on here.....
No I am not volunteering to be the hugger... LOL
I did welcome debating my views, I guess I asked for it....
First off, if you want to buy Chinese crap then be my guest. Buying American helps Americans... so if you want to support a Communist country where people work for pennies a day under questionable conditions just so you can save a few bucks... go for it. Perhaps you would rather live there, given your shopping preferences.

Second, your definition of a moderator is not only wrong its about as far off as anyone could get. If I have personal opinions and I do, my moderators position has nothing to do with it. If you read the rules, which you obviously didn't since you failed to post an introduction in the proper forum, you would know that more than one identity here will get you banned from this site permanently. Therefore, if you don't mind, I'll perform my moderator duties according to the guidelines Jon has set for us and I'll post my opinions just as everyone else here....not as you seem to feel is appropriate.

Finally, as far as I'm concerned your post was BS. Now if you don't like that opinion....its just too bad.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 05:23 PM
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I believe Jon was right when he said that the focus should be on whether or not the threat was baseless or had some foundation. I think the foreign content issue is secondary to whether this individual is attempting to prevent the "word" being dispersed among those that may find it objectionable. His bullying tactics are the issue here, in my mind. I know that it is unlikely that he could win a lawsuit, especially in a jury trial, even IF the content is the correct percentage. That's why he is attempting to bully it away, if there was a legal issue he would have already called his lawyers and filed a suit. He may do that too, as an act of intimidation. The same people that gave you the "percentages" are the same ones that have re-defined Ice Cream several times in the last couple decades. That's how Toyota has become one of the largest U.S. auto makers...at least that's what is claimed...American???
My reason for suspicion had more to do with the elevation given to the "service" that was received, than the issue of whether there was an attempt to hush the circulation of accurate info.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 06:10 PM
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Centerline: Jeez, you have some hostility issues.... seek counseling or get back on your meds. LOL
I simply posted an honest "from experience" reply to a post. You chose to dismiss it publicly as being BS because it varied from your personal opinion. Also apparently trying to incite a flame war between you and I, two members of this forum. Something a true fair moderator should be trying to suppress, not incite with insults and unfounded unprovable accusations. Not one place can I find that Eaton's imported components is being described as "china crap" except in your statements. I have to assume you do not own an Eaton compressor, so I have to ask just what evidence are you basing your statement on? Just the general belief that anything made in a communist country is crap??? That's unconscionable to down trod an entire country just because of their government. Isn't that sort of "hate the entire country and race of people" beliefs that incited some zealot terrorist group to commit 9/11?
BTW the word moderator is derived from the word moderate, which any one who passed the fifth grade would know means basically and simply "middle or the road" Something you are so far off of, you must be stuck out in the swamp and having a real bad day.
I have not violated any rules, have not hurled threats or insults, and can't for the life of me figure out what the hell I did to incur such wrath from an unknown person other than to have the audacity to having an opinion that opposes the gods of this forum???
As far as "buy US", Does Eaton not employ Americans? And according to his plans at the new plant, will employ quite a lot more? Just because he uses some offshore components that they assemble in his plant located currently in what apparently is a weak economic area, does not make him a commie. Or me either for buying that product to use in my shop that employs Americans. If he did not use these components, he undoubtedly would go belly up and many Americans would be out of a job. Also the American produced components that he does use would no longer have his plant buying them, and would probably have to lay off Americans.
That's your plan for keeping US jobs here? Not supporting a company that employs Americans because he buys some outsourced offshore components?
Buy by the way, apparently you missed this important little idea when you were growing up that all men are created equal. Even if they live in a communist run society. As a matter of fact that is a line right from our constitution. They have just as much right to being on earth, making a living and keeping their family in food and needs as they see fit. Haven't we stomped through enough countries with our military to ensure these basic human rights?

I personally do not agree with the general working conditions in these third world countries, but if it is a major step up for these folks to have any steady income at all, then the rest can be worked on. It took this country many centuries to rise above the same exact working conditions, not to mention slavery. Things take time. Ideas take time to change. But to deny them the chance to better their standard of living just because we "hate" the type of government they slave under is not a humane way to deal with it.
The rules have changed, we are in a global economy now. No longer is it simply an American company competing with other American companies. We have to figure out a way to stay competitive in this type of ecomomy or suffer the consequences of our reluctance to effect change.

Anyway, on a lighter note, good luck with the maxxie clone. 64 dodges are about my favorite. I have built three 440 and 330 max clones over the years, and they always will have a place in my heart. Looks like you found a really nice one to start with.
That's what this forum is really supposed to be about ain't it? Just a bunch of folks who love dickin with old cars yakkin and giving advice to others. I guess I have seen little evidence of that yet.
Cheers, and for god sakes lighten up buddy!!! LOL
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:35 PM
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Before I get off track let me say that I support the people here and it is Chicken $h*t to threaten suit by Eaton. With good PR Eaton could have turned the offshore compressor thing into a + rather than try to stifle free speech.

I buy my tools and home shop equipment where I can get the best bang for my hard earned dollar and get decent quality at the same time. The vast majority of my tools are MAC, MATCO and particularly Craftsman from 20 years ago. I buy the occasional Harbor Freight tool (when it is 10-20% of the snap-on/mac/matco item) with the full understanding that it will only last for one or two jobs. For some tools I can't afford snap-on prices/ particuylarly if I'm only going to use it once every few years.

If you want to buy metal working machinery the average person has to look to overseas products if its just for occasional hobbiest use and not a production environment. I can't afford Aloris tooling for my lathe. PhaseII and the other Asian knockoffs have to do. If you are running a production enviornment then Aloris tooling and other USA tooling is probably the way to go.

BTW, where do the most of your big dollar CNC machines come from? And don't tell me HAAS.

You are going to be hard pressed to buy something made exclusively in the US today. As someone mentioned its a global economy now.

Someone mentioned buy Snap-on. Their 2007 annual report has some interesting info.

They finished building a 2nd plant in Kunshan, China in 2007.
43 of their business came from outside the US in 2007.
38% of their revenues came from the snap-on tools group in 2007.
Clearly they are not just a US based, snap-on tools company.

Here is some info out of their 2007 annual report concerning their manufacturing plants. At least that info seems to indicate that the 'snap-on tools themselves are still made in the USA (with one plant in Canada).

I edited out their distribution only locations

The following shows Snap-on’s principal manufacturing locations as of December 29, 2007. C&I is their Commercial and Industrial Group

Location Type of Property Owned/Leased Segment*

U.S. Locations:
Elkmont, Alabama Manufacturing Owned SOT
Conway, Arkansas Manufacturing Leased C&I
City of Industry, California Manufacturing Leased C&I
Escondido, California Manufacturing Leased C&I
San Jose, California Manufacturing Leased D&I
Algona, Iowa Manufacturing Owned SOT
Murphy, North Carolina Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Elizabethton, Tennessee Manufacturing Owned SOT
Milwaukee, Wisconsin Manufacturing Owned SOT

Non-U.S. Locations:
Santo Tome, Argentina Manufacturing Owned C&I
Minsk, Belarus Manufacturing Leased C&I
Santa Barbara D'oeste, Brazil Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Mississauga, Canada Manufacturing Leased C&I
Newmarket, Canada Manufacturing and distribution Owned SOT
Kunshan, China Manufacturing Owned C&I
Rotherham, England Manufacturing Leased C&I
Bourges, France Manufacturing and distribution Leased C&I
Unterneukirchen, Germany Manufacturing Leased C&I
Sopron, Hungary Manufacturing Owned C&I
Correggio, Italy Manufacturing Owned C&I
Vila do Conde, Portugal Manufacturing Owned C&I
Irun, Spain Manufacturing Owned C&I
Vitoria, Spain Manufacturing and distribution Owned C&I
Bollnäs, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I
Edsbyn, Sweden Manufacturing Owned C&I

If you are a stockholder in one or more companies or invest in a ROTH or 401K I would hazard to guess the vast majority of your investments are in globally based companies. Not knocking anyone here so don't get your dander up.
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