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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 08:49 PM
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I try to buy AMERICAN MADE and it is harder to do all the time. Dave5606 have you given any thought to buying USED American made rather then new foriegn.
Also true is you get what you pay for.
As a country we are not exporting as much as we import.
I'm sure that foriegn countries have quality tools that we may never have heard of because all that gets shipped to us is the less expensive tools in order to compete .

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cape Cod Bob
.................. have you given any thought to buying USED American made rather then new foriegn.
Generally speaking the quality of the used American tool will be much better and it will last longer, especially if the foreign tool uses Chinese parts.

Back in the 50's and early 60's Japan produced a bunch of crap too. Just about anything that came from Japan was either poorly made or just plain junk. China is the same way now. They make 2 and 4 post lifts for import to the US and other countries made from substandard steel. They are doing their best to wedge their way into every facet of the automotive industry with garbage like Power Plus intake manifolds. Cheap copies of an Edelbrock design that will crack when torqued to spec if not done very carefully. Why? Because the aluminum is very porous. Nothing like what Edelbrock puts out. They are making toys with unhealthy amounts of lead in the paint and sell the West tainted dog food ingredients and toothpaste. Those are just a few examples of thousands of junk products hitting our shores from Communist China.

Maxxwedge says that if Eaton wasn't buying Chinese parts they would go out of business and put a lot of people out of work. I disagree! If they weren't buying Chinese junk then they would be buying decent quality American made stuff which would put more Americans to work rather than supporting a Communist regime that enslaves its own people. If the truth is known Eaton buys Chinese parts because they're CHEAP and Eaton figures they can make more money that way. THAT is the reason they take such exception when someone points out they're product includes substandard Chinese parts, (that's substandard when compared to American made). Yes the American made parts cost a little more but they are of much higher quality and purchasing them keeps Americans working.

There is NO DEFENSE for buying Chinese parts for anything. The ONLY reason to buy anything made in China is if is isn't made anywhere else and only then only if you absolutely have to have it. Outside of Islamic terrorists, Communist China is the biggest threat to our survival than any country in the world. Each and every day the Pentagon has to deal with cyber attacks against our military and 99% come from Communist China. You may think they're our friend, but that is a very idealistic view. China would like nothing better than to wipe the US off the face of the earth. Like it or not... THAT IS THE TRUTH.

Last edited by Centerline; 01-12-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:27 AM
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And if America had its way, China, India, Korea, Afghanistan, Irag, Iran, Cuba and El Salvador would be off the map.

I do think Chinese imports are mostly crap. I do think companies should be investing in domestic products, keeping money circulating in the domestic markets, to employ domestic workers.

However, I can not support that everything Chinese is crap. It may be that everything Americain companies choose to import to sell to the Americain public is crap. But then you have to look at whats wrong not only with the Chinese manufactoring processes, but the Americain greedy hands who knowling use and purchase sub-standard products because they can buy it for a sub-standard price and sell it to people at markets up above 500%.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:17 AM
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Bingo!!!
I stated in a previous post that quality control is mainly the issue. Years back I did my time in Factories. Hein-Werner, Waukesha Engines, and Allis Chalmers. EVERYTHING they bought or even components manufactured in house went through strict quality control to make sure the specs were up to par. I don't believe that is the case as much any more. I think the bottom line thinking has lessened the quality standards of alot of both domestic and imported goods. If crap is getting in here that has lead paint, poison, or substandard base metals I don't believe that it's a big communist Chinese government plot to kill us one by one with poison friggin toothpaste!!! I place the blame solely on the folks actually doing the importing turning a blind eye towards possible issues that should be tested for before damage is done.
Any manufacturer buying anything from any vendor whether domestic or off shore has the responsibility to make sure these items are safe and sound BEFORE they put there name on it and sell to the public. That's basic business ethics.
If they have hands on control over the quality of the basic components used to assemble their product and then if the stuff is substandard, it should be rejected until standards are met. Again no matter if the stuff is imported from a third world country, or manufactured across town.
The simple statement made to vendors that "if your stuff does not meet our standards, we cannot buy it and use it in our product" should be the norm, But then again given the nature of the news media making an issue out of all the bad stuff, that's all we ever hear about. Never is it reported that Company X has had no issues with importing components for their product. That would not be newsworthy although I am sure that is really the norm. We never hear the good stuff, only the bad stuff is worth reporting. I suspect there are millions of things imported daily that have no safety or quality issues.
Just a small part of the general problem for instance is the govt (USDA) induced recall of foodstuffs. I get emails all the time (subscribed) from the USDA. I have never seen an official recall of a foodstuff other than the peppers and tomato scare last summer that was not domestic. Every other day, some company has to recall beef or meat products that are contaminated with e-coli or listeria or even foreign objects. Or on a lessor severity to most folks, undeclared allergens. 99% of these recalls is for a domestic produced or grown product. Given the amount of food that is imported daily from other countries, this is an alarming statistic. But poison toothpaste takes precedence in the news over our own domestic poison stuff that was sold to the public...... So some Nebraska meat packing company lets 200K pounds of contaminated meat get distributed to the public due to inadequate quality testing must also be a government plot to undermine the peace, safety, and tranquility of our innocent little lives... right???
Point is that corporate bottom line thinking has decreased the standards of too many products that it makes little difference the products origin.
Back to the base subject matter here in this thread, Has anyone seen proof of Eaton's imported components having quality issues, or is it just the lemming mentality that Chinese stuff HAS to be crap? Convince me of actual factual cases of quality issues with this particular company's foreign components other than paranoid rantings about "Chinese Crap" in general and I will humbly, emphatically apologize for being mistaken and quietly go away.
BTW I just tonight purchased a second Eaton Compressor for my home garage. 80 gal tank, 4 cyl pump, with replaceable rod bearings on Steel rods, disc valves instead of reed valves, auto water drain. For 525.00!!! Needs a 500.00 motor that was robbed off of it to run a bridge port that had a 3 phase and was needed more than the compressor. Called Matt Cain, CEO of Eaton on a Sunday AM and got a quote for the replacement motor to help me make the decision whether to buy this or not. And again I am not a buddy of Matt, only a happy owner of one of his compressors. Anyone can call Eaton and talk to the CEO about his products, and he will have knowledge of his products and answers for your questions or concerns. Oh and by the way, he voluntarily also disclosed the "shameful" (as some have described it) fact that his pumps are manufactured offshore in an ISO9000 rated manufacturer. And that was 16 hours before I found this site and read this dispute.
Beat that customer support with some IR, Quincy or whatever.... I agree these and more are actually very quality machines, but at what cost compared to Eaton? Everyone do a quick price comparison for a 10HP 4 cyl compressor, never mind the replaceable bearings and etc. I can't justify the $2000 difference in cost just for another brand that actually may also have foreign components in them. But they may have not just not pissed off some folks enough to investigate the origin of every part of theirs. I have owned a nearly identical compressor (vertical not horizontal like the one I just bought) in my full time shop for over 4 years running all day and sometime nights too with NO issues. Sorry folks, I believe the quality is there along with value.
That's real facts, not paranoid propaganda.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
Generally speaking the quality of the used American tool will be much better and it will last longer, especially if the foreign tool uses Chinese parts.

Back in the 50's and early 60's Japan produced a bunch of crap too. Just about anything that came from Japan was either poorly made or just plain junk. China is the same way now. They make 2 and 4 post lifts for import to the US and other countries made from substandard steel. They are doing their best to wedge their way into every facet of the automotive industry with garbage like Power Plus intake manifolds. Cheap copies of an Edelbrock design that will crack when torqued to spec if not done very carefully. Why? Because the aluminum is very porous. Nothing like what Edelbrock puts out. They are making toys with unhealthy amounts of lead in the paint and sell the West tainted dog food ingredients and toothpaste. Those are just a few examples of thousands of junk products hitting our shores from Communist China.

Maxxwedge says that if Eaton wasn't buying Chinese parts they would go out of business and put a lot of people out of work. I disagree! If they weren't buying Chinese junk then they would be buying decent quality American made stuff which would put more Americans to work rather than supporting a Communist regime that enslaves its own people. If the truth is known Eaton buys Chinese parts because they're CHEAP and Eaton figures they can make more money that way. THAT is the reason they take such exception when someone points out they're product includes substandard Chinese parts, (that's substandard when compared to American made). Yes the American made parts cost a little more but they are of much higher quality and purchasing them keeps Americans working.

There is NO DEFENSE for buying Chinese parts for anything. The ONLY reason to buy anything made in China is if is isn't made anywhere else and only then only if you absolutely have to have it. Outside of Islamic terrorists, Communist China is the biggest threat to our survival than any country in the world. Each and every day the Pentagon has to deal with cyber attacks against our military and 99% come from Communist China. You may think they're our friend, but that is a very idealistic view. China would like nothing better than to wipe the US off the face of the earth. Like it or not... THAT IS THE TRUTH.
Although, again, this thread has gone off track...I am compelled to comment. I seriously doubt that the same companies that are using Chinese components would start buying American...that's ludicrous and myopic...Read my post about "Hecho en Mexico", there are plenty of other suppliers that in MANY other countries they would buy from...that still doesn't do anything to correct your concerns.
I was in Hawaii as a Marine brat within a decade of the end of WW2 and the same stuff that you are spouting was said about Japanese...and American products when we were first exporting...read history...we got better as did the Japanese. I am sure that the Chinese will follow that lead... hell they are executing people over some of the issues you raised...here those same individuals would have been given a great pay package and discharge...the Japanese fall on their swords when they bring embarrassment on their families/country/employer...look back at the last 10 years when they had their economic down turn. Too many Americans are concerned about the almighty $$ from top to bottom and in between. You can't get anyone in power to admit error. If they did we wouldn't be in the current mess we are in.
I remember when stroker cranks cost $1000+ ( in the 60s), were welded up re-heat treated as well as every other procedure needed to make a stroker from a standard crank, or if you had money you could have a billet crank made.. Now there are hundreds of stroker cranks available( brand new) that are ground from rough chinese castings...they are machined here... so there is employment that would have never been. It's very likely that $$$billet cranks would have been the only things available as the older talents that made them died or retired. I am not making a case for the chinese, more one for less bigotry. The chinese only make what we order and most likely with our direction...I wouldn't be surprised that some greedy toy company exported the materials to china to make the toys that have the lead in them...we used it here until not that long ago...many companies probably had reserves of materials and since they couldn't use them here, figured they could use it there.. making the producers the patsies.
I completely disagree with your analysis of WHO is the biggest threat....you are looking too far...look in D.C and you can see about 1000 of the most corrupt,treasonous people in the world...and they run the govt. They also are destroying the country while they convince( at least enough)people that it is in their best interest...yeah THEIR best interest. Hold on, because it is going to be a long bumpy ride....well...unless you believe the Mayan calender, then it will only go on until 2012.
NOW, back to the intimidation...regardless of where any of the parts come from, it was my understanding that the guy threatening Jon was from Ohio...didn't have too chinese sounding name either...
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:47 AM
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Back to the Topic.

We don't have Eaton Compressors here in this part of the world so I feel I have a bit of leeway to comment.
Your legal system is run under the Golden rule,"he who has the gold makes the rules."
This is but one example of this. Here we have a A guy making a few million dollars per year and because of this , thinks he's now king of the hill.He also has a bunch of greedy lawyers who are constantly whispering in his ear that the moderators of various forums make money too from advertising etc and he can sue these guys for a nice profit. The Lawyers of course are the only winners.
His behavior is not only wrong but could be interpreted as a breach of this Forums constitutional rights to express an opinion.
I could see an oppurtunity to file a counter claim in defense because of this breach and the implied threat to abuse the law to achieve what amounts to an attempt to stifle free speech.
Another thing I have learned is that those who make these threats do so in the knowledge that the accused has to pay lots of money to protect themselves,that is why a counter claim is what should be considered. let him try and sue ,you could have a stronger case if he is misrepresenting the veracity of his claim that his product is USA made and threatening all and sundry if they dare to suggest otherwise.
Now for a bit of O/T comment;
I notice a lot the comments from folks who are praising the eaton Compressor have only owned their plant for a short time,less than 10 years say.
I have an ingersoll-Rand Compressor,which I bought 30 years ago. Under our local laws it's now out of date ( the tanks are tested and date stamped when new and must be retested every so often) but in all those years it has never so much as needed a belts and is used constantly .It's hard wired and plumbed with auto water traps etc so it's never been turned off.
I also have a portable Chinese made compressor with a local name ( and date stamped tank etc !) which is not being used because the motor burned out. Warrenty not withstanding this machine was sold to us as a 13 CFM . Not very likely! more like 4 CFM ,it won't run a spray gun for more than 15 minutes. There are differences in the honesty and quality of anything comming out of China ,And instead of buying a new compressor I'm looking to upgrade my existing plant with a locally made secondhand unit which I will rebuild so I don't have to spend my hard earned on some short lived chinese stuff.
For those who are in market for a compressor I would suggest this is a good way to go. If you can do the rings and bearings in your car,you can rebuild a compressor.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:49 AM
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I'm not even going to respond to those of you who are a walking talking commercial for Chinese junk except to say..... Your brainwashing is complete. It's very obvious that you have decided it is not worth supporting American manufacturers and that for the sake of a few bucks you would rather support a Communist regime. You did know that ALL Chinese companies (except the few that are owned by foreign companies) are actually owned by the Chinese government and the profits go to them didn't you? Oh, I forgot..... you don't care because you're saving a couple bucks.

Have it your own way, buy Chinese crap and have fun with it. You'll be buying a replacement before too long and I guess some American salesman might make a little commission off the sale and some American junk dealer might even make a buck or two when he sells all that substandard metal for scrap.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
I'm not even going to respond to those of you who are a walking talking commercial for Chinese junk except to say..... Your brainwashing is complete. It's very obvious that you have decided it is not worth supporting American manufacturers and that for the sake of a few bucks you would rather support a Communist regime. You did know that ALL Chinese companies (except the few that are owned by foreign companies) are actually owned by the Chinese government and the profits go to them didn't you? Oh, I forgot..... you don't care because you're saving a couple bucks.

Have it your own way, buy Chinese crap and have fun with it. You'll be buying a replacement before too long and I guess some American salesman might make a little commission off the sale and some American junk dealer might even make a buck or two when he sells all that substandard metal for scrap.
So you have a list of the American companies that are 100% American? If so, post 'em up. I'm all for buying American when you can find it, but not everyone is made of money, so you have to buy what you can afford. And if that means from an American company with "global components", then that is what you have to do. When I bought my IR compressor, I bought what I could afford. Is it 100% American? I seriously doubt it. But is IR a brand name. Sure is and quite a few members buy the brand name and recommend it. 6 months after I had it, the plastic fan on the motor went bad. Well go figure. Would an Eaton do it? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I should have bought a Cambell-Hausfield. 100% American made items are almost a thing of the past.

Quote:
I was in Hawaii as a Marine brat within a decade of the end of WW2 and the same stuff that you are spouting was said about Japanese...and American products when we were first exporting...read history...we got better as did the Japanese. I am sure that the Chinese will follow that lead... hell they are executing people over some of the issues you raised...here those same individuals would have been given a great pay package and discharge...the Japanese fall on their swords when they bring embarrassment on their families/country/employer...look back at the last 10 years when they had their economic down turn. Too many Americans are concerned about the almighty $$ from top to bottom and in between. You can't get anyone in power to admit error. If they did we wouldn't be in the current mess we are in.
I grew up with my parents telling me about the Japanese junk. All that was drilled into our heads then was buy American. Now if you look at the better cars on the road they are Japanese owned factories that the cars are "Made in America". How many Chinese parts are on American cars? Quite a few. Buy anything today and see where it is made. And who's fault is it because we buy Chinese junk? We have to. The American CEO's have sold us out and forced us to buy overseas. I would venture to say that 90+% of American manufacturers have went overseas for something. That's why I say you have to be selective and pick the best of what we are fed. You want to buy 100% American........either it is out of reach in price, or it is probably less in quality because the small place that makes it cannot compete.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:54 AM
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From the desk of Matt Cain, President/CEO of Eaton Compressor

Greetings,
My name is Matt Cain President and CEO of Eaton Compressor and Fabrication. I would like to share with the public a little bit about the history of my company and the values and principles that guide Eaton Compressor today.

At the age of nine I began working with my father who founded the company in 1977. I am proud of the growth and support of all my loyal customers over the years.

The dialogue on any forum is a great way for the buying public to obtain information regarding any number of products, with that said I would like to directly address the public with information regarding Eaton Compressor and Fabrication and our line of products. Here at Eaton, we understand that quality is the key to growth and success and my goal is to offer the highest quality product at a competitive price, it’s that simple.

Here at Eaton we have experienced growth that will allow us to build a new factory and create jobs here in Ohio. One of my greatest levels of satisfaction is seeing my employees together with their families and knowing that they rely on the jobs here at Eaton Compressor for their lively hood.

I would like to invite the buying public to compare my product with any product in the industry. In an effort to assist the buying public, I have put an attachment on my website, called the “product disclosure form”. Feel free to present this form to any company selling compressors, including us here at Eaton. This form will allow you to compare everything about the unit including where every component is manufactured and how it’s built inside and out.

If you would like to discuss this issue with me personally, feel free to call me any time at 937-***-****, this is my personal cell phone number! I will be more than happy to discuss this issue or any issue regarding Eaton Compressor and Fabrication.

Thank You and God Bless,
Matt Cain

Last edited by Jon; 02-05-2009 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Advertising. Please see: commercial posting guidelines.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 01:04 PM
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Matt - thank you for weighing in on this but we would also like to know if you condone the threat of legal action in this issue?
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Houston54
Matt - thank you for weighing in on this but we would also like to know if you condone the threat of legal action in this issue?

I suspect no matter what he says about it, it'll just be whitewash of details like any civilian funded career criminal (politician) would do. I know I won't be holding my breath for an honest answer........



In a while, Chet.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 02:36 PM
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It seems today's choice in tools, perhaps other goods as well, is to go to Sears, Northern Tool, Home Depot, etc. and buy Chinese made American branded tools at made in America prices.

Or go to Harbor Freight and buy Chinese made, with made up American looking names, at made in China prices.

Either way the tools come from China.

Given the choice I'll buy American made tools or anything else for that matter, but I will not buy Chinese made American brands at American prices.

Bogie
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 03:40 PM
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Bogie, here's one for you. I was looking at buying a hole saw drill (2 1/8") a couple weeks ago at the local Menards store. I could get a single Morse (Stated "Proudly Made in the Usa" on the package) brand saw for $10, then buy the shank for another $5, or buy the Menards Tool Shop brand kit for $6. That kit was made in China, but it came with everything I needed (shank and 4 saws) in one convenient kit. Which did I buy? Neither. I fired up my trust torch, and then used the grinder for cleanup.

I thought buying either would be a ripoff. Buy the Tool Shop kit, and I'd rip off American jobs, buy the Morse saw, and I'd rip off my hard earned money. Bottom line, before I shell out more money for a tool to make my project easier, I'll make the dang tool. At least then I'm supporting an American that knows how to think independently and is conscious of his funds...


In a while, Chet.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie

Given the choice I'll buy American made tools or anything else for that matter, but I will not buy Chinese made American brands at American prices.

Bogie
That is exactly the point I made some time ago on this subject. I resent like hell having to pay American made prices for brand name tools made in China. If the U.S. firms are going offshore to have their stuff made they should pass the savings on to the consumer, not to the executives.

Listen up U.S. manufactures..You go to China to take advantage of cheap labor then try and charge me U.S. made prices I will refuse when I can.

We are not stupid!!!

Vince
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbogie
It seems today's choice in tools, perhaps other goods as well, is to go to Sears, Northern Tool, Home Depot, etc. and buy Chinese made American branded tools at made in America prices.

Bogie
I looked at a Sears drill press I took in as a trade for some labor about ten years ago, he'd had it for probably ten, and it is made in Taiwan...that is Formosa...or Nationalist China, now part of mainland China...so even the Sears brand has had tools made elsewhere for at least 20 years.
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