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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2005, 08:39 AM
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Ask the guy from your pics, that swimming around inside your oil pan if he can take a look at it for you.

I see copper, bearings are made from copper.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2005, 10:57 AM
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I always mix up a 50/50 paste of vegetable oil and valve lapping compound and coat the crank journals for fast bearing breakin.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:06 AM
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go to any new car lot ask the salesman to raise the hood, check the oil. you will not see any metal debri in the oil. then buy a new car drive it for 3000 miles,check the oil if you see any metal debri in the oil call your service mgr at your car dealer and set up an appointment to get you a new engine before the warranty expires. i think every good mechanic/engine builder/machinist in the forum will agree.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
Iroc, if it was mine it would come right back out, But thats me I am the typ of person that does not like metal in my engines...

killer, i hate to dis agree with the professional engine builders that you have talked to but there should be no break-in of bearings.

Ask them when should the crank touch the bearings to create this debris????

I like to build engines where the crank never touches the bearings, but then again i am always the odd man out on this stuff......

keith

Well I'll take your word for it Keith, you've got the building experience! The thread that I linked in my last post had the pictures that I had in this thread, and those are the ones they were referring to when they made those judgements (basically saying they though it was normal/fine). I'm still pretty sure that on most motors, you're going to see that sort of stuff for the first couple of oil changes. I always have. I do agree, however, that if you see it on your dipstick, its probably not good. But assmebly lube can look like metal too.

K
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2005, 01:47 PM
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I always mix up a 50/50 paste of vegetable oil and valve lapping compound and coat the crank journals for fast bearing breakin
Fast bearing breakin"g" I'll believe.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2005, 03:31 PM
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Here are some pics of an engine that my son brought home from the shop. Lost 3 cam lobes after rebuilding. Oil looked pretty too, lots of sparklies in it. Filter was full of goo, so was the pan. Only thing salvageable was the block. Crank is already 20/20 and don't think 30 will even clean it up.






Last edited by Jmark; 07-21-2005 at 04:48 PM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 08:35 AM
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I guess the last question is...WHY? I spent the time/money to have everything done right...it was line-honed, decked, balanced, used differance bearing halves to achieve clearances....what the hell *besides my luck* would cause the mains to spin anyway?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 08:37 AM
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First thing you need to do is find out what is wrong... Then we can maybe get to the why..

was this engine broke before the rebuild??? if so what was wrong or what happened???

keith
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 10:38 AM
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It began life as a 350TPI. I had it rebuilt, only machine work was +.03 boring and switched to carb. We also had installed a factory forged 350 crank that was turned 30/30, and some hyper pistons. That motor was not balanced and the guy that put it together was an alcoholic/smoker that had JUST quit drinking and smoking cold turkey...about the time he put it together. Well, that motor spun a rod bearing but I tore it down before it blew.

I then spent the next year and a half building this motor. The block is the only thing that I reused from the 355. The block was then bored to +.04, line-honed, decked, all by a reputable builder who does motors for the local circle and drag guys. He measured each bore for each piston, gapped the rings, checked all bearing clearances, statically balanced everything and then send the crank to be dynamically balanced with my balancer and flexeplate...and he hung the pistons on the rods...basically I just bolted it all together.

Here is a link to my specs: http://iroc385z.gotdns.com/

I did just think of something that could be a problem...I got one of those "midway performance preditor cams" off of ebay...it was a custom hydrualic roller grind but was 100 cheaper than the comp and crane roller cams. It turns out that the cam is cast like a flat tappet cam, not billet like the rollers usually are. Could a roller cam be eated up if not billet? If that is the case then all lobes must be wearing equally b/c my cyl pressure is within 2-3 psi for all cylinders.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 12:51 PM
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I think that cam could be an issue. I talked to a GN guy who ran into a similiar problem and knew others that did. Cam material is very important. i would check it.

Chris
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
does motors for the local circle and drag guys
This isn't indicative of a good street engine builder. They ain't nothing alike.


Quote:
I got one of those "midway performance preditor cams" off of ebay
Not good either. Measure the lift with a dial micro. Don't skimp a hundred bucks next time. Save money elsewhere.

A flattened cam may not show up on a crank test. That's because at the slow cranking speeds (400rpm) lift really doesn't affect total air flow. If a lobe is .150 shy, but not a restriction to flow at 400rpm , than the lobe next to it at spec won't be either. Crank it up a few thousand rpm and the missing .150 lift seems noticeable.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 01:18 PM
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Yea...he tried to get me to run a solid roller with over 600 lift...and run 4.11s with a 3500 stall. I told him NO, it is a street car. Besides, he didn't design the engine, he did the machine-work...my point is that if he can build motors to spec, does it on a daily basis and is still in business then he must do his machine work right. I know that he would not be a good choice to *design* a street motor.

I am hoping that it is just the cam. That would be a good excuse to bump up the duration a bit I think that I am going to pull the engine his week to see what the bearings and cam looks like.

Thanks again for all of the great help, I'll keep yas posted.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2005, 01:31 PM
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engine

One thing,,, Don't think because a guy builds racing engines he can't make a mistake or miss something... I don't know this guy from adam but things do happen. I have been building engines for over 20 years and i still have things go wrong from time to time. it happens to everyone........

The bad thing is we can guess sbout it untill the cows come home and untill you yank it,,,, we are all just wizzing up a rope.... we need to see what is wrong and make educated decisions from there......

keith

Last edited by k-star; 07-22-2005 at 01:40 PM.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2005, 02:23 PM
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Update:

Well I pulled the engine today. I didn't find much metal in the pan, mostly "sludge" that looked like fine metal powder turned goo.

What I DID find has me perplexed. It was lodged in the screen of the oil pump pickup and looks like it had it's *** beat before finding its home there.

Please note that the round solid thing is a magnet that I had at the bottom of my pan. The other metal piece is what I had found in the screen. I think I know what it is but don't understand how it got so deformed, I would like you guys to give your ideas.
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Last edited by IROC_385z; 07-28-2005 at 02:57 PM. Reason: additional info
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2005, 03:22 PM
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I am stumped....what are you thinking it is? Pop a rod and main bolt and see what you have there. You are only a few minutes away....

Chris
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