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Old 09-20-2008, 10:59 AM
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ECM for FI Engine

If I wanted to pull a complete 5.0 Fuel Injected Ford engine, from Pick-and-Pull, and use it as is, what else would I need to get to install/run it? I know I'd need to get the fuel pump, O2 sensors, etc., but I'm wondering about the ECM. Is there a specific ECM just for the engine, or does the ECM control EVERYTHING on the car?...

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Old 09-20-2008, 11:49 AM
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Get the engine wiring harness and ecm with it. The ecm is different between automatic and manual transmission so make sure you get the ecm for the transmission you are planning to use. I think you can buy the engine harness aftermarket but they are pretty exspensive.

Last edited by 47dodge; 09-20-2008 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 09-20-2008, 12:09 PM
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There are control differences in years of ECMs, Some won't work with a manual trans, some will. Some need more sensors than others to work properly. IIRC the 89 mustang is a good one, as well as 90 and 91. .IIRC some are not easily reprogrammable. Prior to 88 or 89 some are speed density controlled, and some are mass air flow controlled. I understand that the mass air flow controlled units are easier to deal with.

EDIT:

I did a search here on the site, and found a good thread with some practical info about the differences in 5.0 motors..

5.0 t bird engine





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Last edited by powerrodsmike; 09-20-2008 at 12:29 PM. Reason: there was no 5.0 in an 89 T bird, add some info..
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Old 09-20-2008, 12:33 PM
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Well, since I'm getting some feedback on this, I might as well Post some specifics. I'm using an EDIS 8 system out of a Tbird, which eliminates the distributor. When I snagged it, I got the ENTIRE system...triggerwheel, sensor, EDIS ignition computer, injectors, etc. I WAS going to go with a Megasquirt ECM, but the more I look at it, the more I think it's more than I can handle...thus, my question. Now the 302 (5.0) Mustang, and for THAT matter the 4.6 Tbird engine displacements, are close enough to my 291 Hemi engine to just pirate the necessary Ford "stuff" and adapt it right onto the 291...which is what I'm REALLY trying to do I've already modified a 65mm Explorer throttle body's linkage to use with a 200-4R, and the TB will bolt onto the 291 4bl intake. Getting ready to drill the intake for the injectors (19lb, also from the Tbird), and set up the crank damper for the star wheel/sensor. I'm told that with just the EDIS ignition computer, the engine will start and run in the "limp home" mode. I REALLY appreciate the help, guys. EFI is TOTALLY new for me, but I'm a quick learner...

Last edited by 345 desoto; 09-20-2008 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:48 PM
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I've done it both ways. I "transplanted" all the stock EFI components over to a hot rod and I've built a Megasquirt from scratch and wired eveything new (and that was with a blown engine using the EDIS-8 ignition.

When all was said and done, it was eisier to go the Megasquirt route from scratch instead to trying to make all the factory stuff work.

Beyond that though, it sounds like your mixing apples oranges and bananas. The EDIS-8 will not work stand alone, you need an ECM to provide the proper advacnce curve. Othewise yes, the EDIS module will provide a static spark (10 degrees happens to be the default timing signal on the crank trigger). Not sure if a non EDIS computer will run the EDIS, although the TFI distributors also had PIP and SAW signals, not sure it they are compatable with the EDIS.

I think you need to pick a system and stick with it start to finish.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:15 PM
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ARROWHEAD,
How hard was it to set up the Megasquirt? That seems to be the hot set up for the EDIS 8. Actually, I haven't really asked anyone anything in depth yet. I just want to make sure I don't waste money going the wrong route. Since you've done both, I'll take your lead and stick with the Megasquirt, Can I use any of the Stock Ford EFI components like sensors and stuff?...
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Old 09-20-2008, 09:31 PM
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You can use all stock ford stuff, but it's easier if you get the GM air temp and coolant temp sensors. You coould use Ford, but you would have to recalibrate the program for the different resistance values. The program defaults to GM. The TPS doesn't matter, it's basically a reostat and the MAP sensor is part of the MS anyway. The only wildcard is the idle air control. I didn't even use one on the blower motor. You really only need the IAC for cold weather warmups and to compensate for heavy loads at idle like an A/C compressor kicking on or power steering.

You can still harvest the connectors for the injectors from a stock harness plus other hardware like fuel rails, pressure regulator, fuel pump, pump safety switch, etc.

As far as difficulty, the MS is a little quirky when it comes to load ing software and making sure you have the right versions. As far as setting up the program to run your engine, everything is in the MS manual. I suggest reading it thoughly a couple times before going forward with an installation. It will make things go a lot easier.

Just remember they originally built MS as tool to learn how EFI works, not a plug and play that was cheaper than the big names, that's just a side benefit. Be prepared to do some research and reading and some trial and error.

Good luck!
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:56 AM
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ARROW HEAD,
Thank you SO much. Valuable tips and info. NOW I can start collecting bits and pieces. Thanks, again...
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:22 AM
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IMO I would suggest you study more before spending money on parts.

I am quite familiar with the Ford 5.0 systems, which have been adapted to many other engines.

First you said you wanted to make a 5.0 run, then you say you want to use a crank trigger system on a baby hemi.
No doubt there are adaptable systems out there that I am not familiar with.

Personally I would use a Ford Mustang 5.0 OBD 1 system with the stock Mustang GT A9L computer and adapt the distributor. This system is well thought out and a gazillion people have developed programming for it. It would probably run the 291 with no modifications.

You need every piece of harnness, not just the engine harness, all the way back to the computer, and of course the computer. The computer requires NO changing to eliminate all the smog junk, so it is easily adaptable to most any engine.
Anything you miss is readily available at any salvage yard or parts store.
That in itself makes the Ford 5.0 system attractive if the thing ever dies along the highway in the middle of podunkville.
JMO

BTW 10 years ago Ford Motorsports was offering a street rod kit that defined all this stuff. No smog junk needed.

Last edited by ScoTFrenzel; 09-21-2008 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:44 PM
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I agree with ScoTFrenzel about a mass air setup. Either look for a A9L or A9P ecm from a 89 up 5.0. My friends 85 Capri rs is running an A9L on a 351W, rpm heads and a big cam. It runs good on a stock tune with a mass air sensor calibrated for 24lb injectors. I never thought it would run as well as it does with a 236/246 114lsa cam.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:26 PM
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I went ahead and bit the bullet and snagged an entire 4.6 DOHC aluminum engine out of a Lincoln Mark VIII. Since it has EVERYTHING with it, all I need to do is pick up is a 4R70W, the EEC, 02 sensors, and stuff, and BASICALLY plug and play. I literally stole it for what it cost, so I couldn't pass it up. It should eliminate a LOT of monkeying around with expensive stuff that may or may not work. Besides, I'll still have my Hemi tucked away under my bench...
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Last edited by 345 desoto; 09-22-2008 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 345 desoto
I went ahead and bit the bullet and snagged an entire 4.6 DOHC aluminum engine out of a Lincoln Mark VIII. Since it has EVERYTHING with it, all I need to do is pick up is a 4R70W, the EEC, 02 sensors, and stuff, and BASICALLY plug and play. I literally stole it for what it cost, so I couldn't pass it up. It should eliminate a LOT of monkeying around with expensive stuff that may or may not work. Besides, I'll still have my Hemi tucked away under my bench...
Too bad you didn't get everything from the donor car. $$$$$$$$$
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