Edelbrock Performer Cam Timing Wrong - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:44 PM
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Edelbrock Performer Cam Timing Wrong

I installed an Edelbrock Performer Cam and intake manifold on my 350 Chevy.

I used my previous Summit Racing timing chain set, since the Competition Cams stick I had in there failed prematurely.

I lined up the timing marks on the gears - crank at 12:00, cam at 6:00. This is how I did it before and it worked.

Then, I went to start adjusting the valves. Every valve that I adjusted at TDC was loose at TDC + 1 crank revolution. That made me think the cam is not degreed like stock cams. In the poopsheet for the cam there is mention of must use edelbrock timing gear set.

I am thinking that the Edelbrock Performer Cams are not degreed the same as stock and other cams. It seems they are about 180 degrees out. Has anyone else run into this?

Thing is though, I need to know if they are exactly 180 degrees out, and no tech support at summit or edelbrock this weekend.

Cruising around online I found some other evidence of this, but no real confirmation. Here are the pictures of the edelbrock timing gear vs. a summit timing gear - notice the relation of the timing mark and the small hole for cam alignment - it appears they are about 180 degrees out:

Edelbrock timing set:

Summit timing set:

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Old 09-27-2008, 02:16 PM
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I can't imagine that anyone would purposefully make a cam that needs to be installed different than all the rest. It's possible that the Summit picture has the cam gear sitting upside down since the cam dowel pin hole is almost opposite the other one. Or possibly when the edited the picture, they flipped it accidentally?

Edit...I copied the picture of the Summit set into my photo program and blew it up and lightened it up and the part number is S-390 and it is showing with the writing "USA" in the correct direction. Hmmmm.

Last edited by Jmark; 09-27-2008 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:31 PM
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The Edelbrock instruction sheet shows the hole for the cam dowl to the right. looking from the front.

I have the Edelbrock timing chain set and thatīs how I installed it.

edit: Iīd say the cam gear in the Edelbrock picture is flipped and to confuse is stamped with i.d. both sides.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:34 PM
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Now I understand!!! LOL

So what they are doing is actually having the cam be at TDC on #1 cylinder when the dots are lined up......instead of having to rotate the crank one turn to get to #1 TDC.....cool!
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:44 PM
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I think there is a lesson here??
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:37 PM
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Did some reading on the Edelbrock site and found his tidbit.

CAUTION:
Edelbrock Performer-Plus camshafts have been engineered
and ground to produce optimum performance when installed in the straight-up zero position only. DO NOT install a Performer-Plus or Performer-RPM camshaft in an advanced or a retarded position.

When using Performer-Link Timing Chain and Gears (7800 Series) with Edelbrock cam and lifter kits, straight-up timing alignment is achieved. If any other timing gear set is used, it is necessary to check camshaft position for correct timing alignment. This requires indexing the camshaft with a degree wheel to verify timing alignment.
good idea no matter who's cam it is!

OEM or non-Edelbrock timing gear sets are not recommended for use with Edelbrock camshafts.


Pretty basic warning but I wish they would have included the relocation of the cam dowel position when using their gear sets. Kinda throws a new learning curve in there! LOL
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:42 PM
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Hmm, now I'm not sure what the heck is going on! LOL

the Edelbrock site shows the SBC (7800series) gear set like this, opposite of what Summit shows! I"m cornfused!!

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Old 09-27-2008, 06:34 PM
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I'm pretty sure that this cam is 180 degrees different than the one I had installed before. with timing marks both lined up, #6 cylinder is up with both valves closed not #1. Turn the crank one rev and #1 is up with both valves closed not #6.

I'm not sure what to think of the latest edelbrock 7800 pic tho.
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:38 PM
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I'm thinking the Summit picture of the Edelbrock timing set is reversed. Backwards "S" maybe?

But the cam still seems 180 degrees different than the previous one.

I guess I'll put it back together and try and fire it up.

Last edited by hotrodtodd1968; 09-27-2008 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodtodd1968
I'm pretty sure that this cam is 180 degrees different than the one I had installed before. with timing marks both lined up, #6 cylinder is up with both valves closed not #1. Turn the crank one rev and #1 is up with both valves closed not #6..

That IS the correct place to be if you install them "dot to dot". #6 WILL be at TDC compression. That is where you need to rotate the crank one full turn to get #1 to TDC compression. Some guys install the cam gear with the dot at 12, therefor bypassing having to turn the crank to get #1 in position so they can drop in the dist.

I was thinking (and maybe now wrongly so) that Edelbrock had drilled the dowel hole 180 degrees around to eliminate the confusion when installing the gears, THINKING it is at #1 TDC, but finally finding out it's actually up on #6 instead.

I too think one of the pictures from their site got reversed. I tried blowing up the last picture to ck the cast-in writing but could not make an accurate determination of it.

Maybe some of the full time builders can add more here. Maybe Edelbrock IS changing the cam gear dowel location, maybe not.

Mark
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:45 PM
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Ok, my final word! LOL

I honestly do not remember where the dowel pin goes!!

There are two conflicting images that show the part numbers and "USA" as being readable so the images don't appear to have been reversed. That leaves me with "I give up!".

Overall, it's doesn't really matter. Just pull #1 plug, insert finger, bump starter until you feel compression build, manually bring timing marks together on the timing tab and balancer, stick in dist with rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire tower. It will run.

Mark

Last edited by Jmark; 09-27-2008 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:57 PM
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It is my suspicion that you simply were not on the base circle of the cam lobe when you adjusted them initially, resulting in lash when you came around with the crank. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Either that or you used the "twist" method of adjusting the play out of the pushrods and had the lash a little tight the first time. Here's the bulletproof way to set the lash before firing off the motor.....

Pull the valve covers and spark plugs. With your thumb on #1 plug hole (driver's side, front), turn the motor over clockwise with a socket on the damper retaining bolt on the crank until you begin to feel pressure on your thumb. Continue turning the crank while watching the timing tab and bring the crank up to TDC where the tab lines up with the groove cut into the damper. This will put you on TDC #1 firing position where the valves are closed and the lifters are on the heel of the cam lobe.

Starting at #1, jiggle the pushrods up and down with your forefinger and thumb and tighten down the rocker nut on each one until there is no play. Tighten the rocker nuts an additional 3/4 of a turn (270 degrees) or like from 12 O'Clock to 9 O'Clock on a clock face. Now, put the socket on the crank nut and turn the crank clockwise 1/4 turn (90 degrees), like from 12 O'Clock noon to 3 O'Clock on a clock face. This will put #8 cylinder on TDC firing position. Adjust both rockers on #8 cylinder (passenger side, rear). Now, turn the crank another 1/4 turn and adjust #4 rockers (passenger side, second from the front). Turn the crank another 1/4 turn and adjust #3 rockers (driver's side, second from front). Turn the crank another 1/4 turn and adjust #6 rockers (passenger side, third from the front). Turn the crank another 1/4 turn and adjust #5 rockers (driver's side, third from the front). Turn the crank another 1/4 turn and adjust #7 rockers (driver's side, rear). Turn the crank another 1/4 turn and adjust #2 rockers (passenger side, front).

Use only the "jiggle up and down method" of determining play in the pushrods. Twisting them will give you the wrong lash because THEY WILL END UP TOO TIGHT.

To summarize, bring each cylinder up to TDC firing, jiggle each of the pushrods for that cylinder up and down until all play is removed, tighten each rocker down an additional 3/4 of a turn after all play is removed.

The reason for removing all spark plugs before beginning is.....
1. To make the motor easier to turn over.
2. To prevent the piston from "rocking back" against compression and giving you an erroneous reading.


Of course Edelbrock is going to urge you to use an Edelbrock timing set. That's the way they sell more timing sets.

I don't think there is any way they are going to cut their cams out of phase with the rest of the industry. It would be totally illogical and would be the kiss of death for them in my opinion. Pay no attention to the pics. They could easily have been flopped. The person responsible for production and inclusion of the photos into advertising literature probably doesn't know a Johnson Rod from a muffler bearing and probably couldn't care less.
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:29 PM
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edelbrock 7800

Hey guys...so to clarify this, when installing this timing set line up dot to dot. Then turn crank 180 before dropping dizzy? The reason I ask is I am also stuck...I did it this way but engine is acting like its 180 off?? Cant get new cam/intake (2101/2102) to idle. I also accidently installed crank gear in advanced position so that might be it also. What a mistake...I heated that sucker up to install and paid no attention to the symbol as it was burning my hand!
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:43 AM
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Install at dot to dot. Do not advance or retard until you are more oriented.

Cam 6 crank 12. Follow the corresponding symbol on the gears for 0. Turn the engine over by hand verify tdc compression. Install distributor pointing at no 1.

If the lifters are filled during priming , then bleed down the rocker arms will loosen. Do not think that is the case.

My timing set looked the same as the edelbrock picture. My cam is the performer. I had no problems like this. You should be pleasantly surprised with the cams performance. It is a major improvement from stock when all is dialed in. Nice low end . A little more power all the way to 5000.
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