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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:17 AM
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The carb and intake, headers, etc. will all swap over to a bigger SBC should you decide to go that route later on, so it's all good.

EDIT- Real sorry for the hijack, junkyardjeff. American Muscle, you can start another thread if you'd like.

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Last edited by cobalt327; 06-10-2010 at 11:40 AM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2010, 10:10 AM
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Jeff,
if you broke bolts you are over tightened the intake....

on the first round of correct/specific tightening sequence it is use only 15-17ft/lbs on a 289-302...

on the second round it is 23- to max only 25ftlbs on a oem iron manifold...

CRS=I think the aluminum performer is only 20-22ft/lbs on the second round???

once you have over tightened and crushed/pinched a intake gasket area (due to decking/milling/etc) it won't/can't come back to seal once the motor is hot...

adding to Tech's alignment's info?:
(according to Tom Monroe) 302's only allow up to .020 off the deck/heads before you do have to remove .020 from the manifold sides and .0141 off the bottem (ends) to get back to reasonably parallel for even applied forces....
(basically one rebuild???)

a fairly easy/crude way to evaluate how bad or where is the pinch angle due to decking/cutting is use some plumbers putty or kids clay to make a small snake/ropes gasket on the heads and use some studs so you can drop it straight down into place to then tighten in correct sequence just to about maybe 10ft/lbs....
(lube the intake surface and/or heads with something so the clay will release,,,just a smear of cooking oil work's pretty darn good)

"because" there are so many parts tolerances and potential skewed angles plus warpage involved,,,the results of the crushed clay are often surprising....
(my latest motor should definitely have needed milling on my performer but I was able to correct it with just handle filing)

footnote?:
if by chance you have the pcv plugged into the rear p-side valve cover hole it is likely you are picking up oil and that will show up on all 8 plugs like a oil intake leak...

Last edited by red65mustang; 06-10-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Honestly, I doubt it. You might see a reduction in ET at the track if the engine and carb were tuned to a tee, but seat of the pants, prob. not.

A Q-jet, properly set up on a factory aluminum intake would likely perform the best w/a stock engine w/headers in your C10. Next to that, the Edelbrock EPS and carb.
Agreed but the runners on the late aluminum Q-Jet intakes are identical to the earlier cast iron intakes. Their only advantage is weight so don't pay much for one. The only GM SBC Q-Jet intake with a "high performance" advantage is the Bowtie dual plane, it's a cast iron clone of the original Z/28 & LT-1 high rise with a dual carb flange. Excellent manifold but you don't need one...........

The '62-'65 327/300HP AFB iron intake manifolds and the '66 AVS/Holley iron intakes also have the same runner configuration as the Q-Jet intakes and will accept the Performer carbs without an adapter.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:45 PM
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If I can remember correctly the bolt broke on the first round of tightening and did not make it to 15 and it was a low mile original motor that had not been touched since assembled,when I put it all togather I used after market aluminum valve covers with crappy baffles and since replaced with the originals thinking they were the cause of the oil consumption. I pulled a couple plugs and can not tell of any oil burning and there are no puddles under the car so the only thing left is the installation of the intake,the PCV is on the pass side at the rear but thats the way it came out of the factory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
Jeff,
if you broke bolts you are over tightened the intake....

on the first round of correct/specific tightening sequence it is use only 15-17ft/lbs on a 289-302...

on the second round it is 23- to max only 25ftlbs on a oem iron manifold...

CRS=I think the aluminum performer is only 20-22ft/lbs on the second round???

once you have over tightened and crushed/pinched a intake gasket area (due to decking/milling/etc) it won't/can't come back to seal once the motor is hot...

adding to Tech's alignment's info?:
(according to Tom Monroe) 302's only allow up to .020 off the deck/heads before you do have to remove .020 from the manifold sides and .0141 off the bottem (ends) to get back to reasonably parallel for even applied forces....
(basically one rebuild???)

a fairly easy/crude way to evaluate how bad or where is the pinch angle due to decking/cutting is use some plumbers putty or kids clay to make a small snake/ropes gasket on the heads and use some studs so you can drop it straight down into place to then tighten in correct sequence just to about maybe 10ft/lbs....
(lube the intake surface and/or heads with something so the clay will release,,,just a smear of cooking oil work's pretty darn good)

"because" there are so many parts tolerances and potential skewed angles plus warpage involved,,,the results of the crushed clay are often surprising....
(my latest motor should definitely have needed milling on my performer but I was able to correct it with just handle filing)

footnote?:
if by chance you have the pcv plugged into the rear p-side valve cover hole it is likely you are picking up oil and that will show up on all 8 plugs like a oil intake leak...
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2010, 07:49 PM
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One other bit of info is don't use the rubber/cork end seals that will come with the gaskets. Nine times out of ten they will leak. I prefer the Right Stuff by Permatex for pretty much anywhere you would use RTV. Get the china walls clean and dry, (as well as the intake) lay a 5/16" bead along them, with an extra "ball" of sealant at each corner. Lay the intake gaskets down on top of the ball, and smear the squeezed out sealat over top of the tabs. Set the intake down and torque in proper sequence. When done, this will NEVER leak. Unfortunately it also makes the intake a bear to take off next time, but it is worth not having intake end seal oil leaks.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2010, 11:05 PM
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Yesterday I changed the PCV valve and will see if that was the problem but the motor will be coming apart to get the noisey guide repaired and will most likely put the factory intake on since it wont have any other shiney parts on the motor.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2010, 07:24 AM
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Jeff,
oem covers=excellent baffle's layout=no oil pick up if the pcv is mounted in the rear ....

since the plugs don't show any oil then worn exhaust valve guides and/or worn exhaust stem seals are a potential source...
(it's a fix not a cure but the TFE positive stem seals do usually help alot)
really sooty exhaust pipes can be a clue for exhaust valves stems sealing problems....

re: intake
every time you back off the gas pedal the Hg suction force created by the pistons on the intake stroke in the motor shoots very quickly to about 25Hg as the motor winds down....
(some conditions it can spike to 30Hg for a instant!!!)

that generates a tremendous suction/siphon force at the intake/head port area to suck oil into the chamber "if" there is a leak...
(remove the pcv valve and stick your finger over the end of the hose or the carb barb then rev/release the linkage quickly to feel how hard a motor does suck in A/F!!!)

point is,,,if/when it is a intake oil leak it will show up on the plugs and/or be a very poor running motor due to low Hg....

suggestion?:
from all you have posted,,,,verify the whole motor is truly basically healthy before you tear anything apart with this simple/quick test:

plug in your vac gage and with the motor warmed up use the linkage to rev it to a constant 4k-5k rpms and the drop/release the linkage quickly...
a healthy/happy sealing (rings/valves/walls/etc/etc) stock motor rotating assembly will show 25Hg as the rpms fall.... but more important is that the needle is steady as the rpms fall indicating all/every the parts are working well....

how bad is the oil consumption???
how many miles to need a quart???

Last edited by red65mustang; 06-14-2010 at 07:36 AM.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2010, 08:00 AM
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The motor only had 16,000 miles on it when I installed it and has about 34,000 now,it uses a quart every 500 miles now and it all started after the intake installation as it never used a drop of oil in between oil changes before. Either I did something wrong or something is wrong with the manifold.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:57 AM
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Jeff,
I'm posting this to pop your thread back up to the top to see if anyone else has any bright idea's....

a qt per 500 miles should show up on the spark plug insulators and plugs inner metal shell "if" the oil leak is on the intake side of the A/F flow...

slim chance but possible it is more than one problem/source (caused by the used intake????)....

with the motor hot,,,drain about 8oz of oil and about 8oz of coolant into seperate clear glass jars and just let them set on your bench over night to see if there is oil in the coolant or vice versa...

needs to be checked because you say there is no oil on the ground and no oil on the plugs so all that oil you keep adding "has to be" going somewhere????
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:38 PM
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On a SBF, I like to put studs in four corner bolts for the intake. This helps me set that sucker down in the right place the first time.

Not my original idea - I borrowed it from somebody way in the past.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:31 PM
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It came with 4 studs from the factory and I did not drive it much this week to see if the PCV change did any good,I will find out what is wrong when it comes apart.
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