Edelbrock performer vs stock 4 bbl intake - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2010, 08:52 PM
junkyardjeff's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dayton Ohio
Age: 53
Posts: 252
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Edelbrock performer vs stock 4 bbl intake

A couple years ago I put a performer intake on a low mile 302 and it started using oil,it has to come apart to repair a noisey valve guide and I picked up a original cast iron intake to put back on. Is there much difference between a performer and a stock intake to make much difference on a stock motor.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2010, 09:16 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 13,082
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,057 Times in 879 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyardjeff
A couple years ago I put a performer intake on a low mile 302 and it started using oil,it has to come apart to repair a noisey valve guide and I picked up a original cast iron intake to put back on. Is there much difference between a performer and a stock intake to make much difference on a stock motor.
Performer is, in my opinion, a stock OEM design that will make about the same, or a little more power as an OEM iron manifold, but is lighter on the front end of the vehicle. If you are building for power with a carb, use a Edelbrock RPM or Weiand Stealth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2010, 09:37 PM
junkyardjeff's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dayton Ohio
Age: 53
Posts: 252
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Its going to stay a stock motor and I just need to stop the oil consumption that started with the installation of the aluminum intake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2010, 10:13 PM
327NUT's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: So. Utah
Age: 68
Posts: 3,292
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 91 Times in 82 Posts
Ok...have to ask, WHY did the alum. intake cause an oil consumption problem???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 06:26 AM
junkyardjeff's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dayton Ohio
Age: 53
Posts: 252
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dont know why but the installation of it started the oil consumption,either something went wrong in the installation or the casting. The first aluminum intake I put on was a used one I got off ebay and it was cracked or warped and had a huge vacumn leak so I am not a big fan of them right now so the cast iron one is going on unless when removed I can find the cause easily.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 07:05 AM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I bet you find it has been pulling oil through the bottom of the intake gaskets. Bought a 90,000 mile '76 Monte Carlo with a 350 and an Edelbrock intake. The seller said it needed an overhaul, it was smoking badly and using a Qt. every 50 miles and fouling out plugs every 200. I pulled the intake after I got it home and the bottom of the gaskets were oil soaked. I replaced them with FelPro's. No more smoking, oil consumption dropped to 1/2 a Qt. every 2,000 and no more oil fouled plugs.

Can't say on a SBF but on a SBC I don't think an aftermarket intake shows much gain over the stock 4 Bbl. until you hit about 4,500 to 5,000. For a daily driver that rarely sees the high side of 4,000 they are just eye candy. With a few mods like a Performer cam and headers that extend the RPM range then they can help up to 5,500 RPM without a noticable sacrifice at low end on larger engines. But how much do they really help? I used to have tons of test articles but none of them were ever really "apples to apples".

FWIW I'm putting together a 305 SBC for a truck with 9.3 compression, unported 305 L30 Vortec heads, '395 Marine & Ramjet 350 roller cam (mild TQ cam), 1-1/2" full length headers and a cast iron quadraJet intake manifold that was made for Vortec headed industrial applications like generators, pumps, etc. I have a brand new Performer intake for Vortec heads still in the box but I'm using the iron intake for two reasons.

#1 the Vortec heads have no heat crossover passages to warm the intake in cold weather but the iron intake has a water passage to run coolant under the plenum to warm it in cold weather. Aftermarket Vortec intakes, with the exception of the very expensive GMPP intake and the Performer RPM, do not. Why they didn't put the passage in the more street oriented std. Performer is beyond me unless it was to keep cost down. But then turn around and put it in a more race oriented intake?

#2 I believe the Performer would give up too much low end mixture velocity on this small engine resulting in a loss of TQ and fuel economy below 4,000 and that was the primary focus of my cylinder head, camshaft and header selection. This thing should pull hard to 5,000-5,500 but I expect it to really shine from an idle to 4,000, for a 305 that is. If my DD2000 results are close it should fool most people into thinking it's something larger.

At the end of the day it's hard to beat the factory intakes for low end TQ and off idle throttle response.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 07:38 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyardjeff
Dont know why but the installation of it started the oil consumption,either something went wrong in the installation or the casting. The first aluminum intake I put on was a used one I got off ebay and it was cracked or warped and had a huge vacumn leak so I am not a big fan of them right now so the cast iron one is going on unless when removed I can find the cause easily.
Like Hippie said- the intake gasket should be suspected as being the culprit.

The Performer has been dyno'ed to death, it always shows a modest gain over OEM, and obviously there's the weight savings of Al over cast iron.
The type of intake gasket makes a difference as to how well the intake will seal. Whether or not the block and/or heads have been shaved can make a difference.

I'd run the Performer intake, no question. Use a gasket like the Fel-Pro Part #MS90361. This isn't a "race" gasket. Nor do you want a steel shim-type gasket.

If you meticulously clean the surfaces and follow the gasket installation instructions and retighten the intake after it heat cycles, it should seal fine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 07:51 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
From the intake dyno test I have seen, the stock 4 bbl intake should make more power and torque until 3000 rpm.

if the cam is stock, car is heavy (3800+ lbs), and the gears are tall, then use the stock intake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 08:00 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
From the intake dyno test I have seen, the stock 4 bbl intake should make more power and torque until 3000 rpm.

if the cam is stock, car is heavy (3800+ lbs), and the gears are tall, then use the stock intake.
Looked and I can't find such a test- got a link?
Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:29 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
Here is one, not quite a “stock cam” with 224 degrees at 0.050” but look at test 1 and 2. The stock intake and carb is test 1 and test 2 is with a performer intake and holley. At up to 3200 rpm, the stock stuff is making more power.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...gine_dyno.html



Here is another when the performer intake lost power below 3000 compared to the stock q-jet intake.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ild/index.html


Here are a few links, don’t have time to find more. But I have seen this same result for years and years. Plus many recommendations (publications) from engine builders to use the stock 4 bbl intakes if the car is heavy and gears are tall.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:41 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
I can't find a stock engine w/a back to back intake swap either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 10:52 AM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I can't find a stock engine w/a back to back intake swap either.

There's probably a very simple explanation for that........... they never published any and I think we can all guess why that is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 04:19 PM
junkyardjeff's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dayton Ohio
Age: 53
Posts: 252
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The motor is in a big 65 custom 500 4 door and I used Mr Gasket gaskets that came with the installation kit which I will never buy again since the Mr Gasket bolts are junk.

Last edited by junkyardjeff; 06-07-2010 at 04:23 PM. Reason: want to add something
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 04:38 PM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyardjeff
I used Mr Gasket gaskets that came with the installation kit
That just about guarantees it's your gaskets leaking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:39 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 13,082
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,057 Times in 879 Posts
It's not the thickness or thinness of the gasket, it's the relationship of the head/intake surfaces. They're not square with each other. The intake gaskets are being pinched like crazy on the outside, but on the crankcase side, they are not being pinched at all, allowing oil vapors to be pulled into the intake ports from the crankcase when the intake valve opens.

Having become tired of this with some motors I assembled in the past, I devised this operation and shared it with others on the wiki.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...lead,_internal
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Edelbrock performer(prm) intake for 350 SBC? eric32 Engine 12 10-20-2010 05:51 PM
Rpm Air Gap Intake Onto A Stock 400sbc jarhead_615 Engine 2 04-20-2010 06:27 AM
Edelbrock Performer RPM Hydraulic Roller Regal Beagle Engine 57 12-31-2008 04:30 PM
Edelbrock High Riser Intake??? Byrdie Engine 5 08-04-2004 11:29 PM
best edelbrock intake for this setp oldcarguy85 Engine 5 04-25-2002 07:04 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.