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Old 07-14-2011, 04:45 PM
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Edelbrock Victor Jr intake street manners

Just wanted to share some initial first impressions of the motor I've built... 383 SBC, big solid cam, Victor Jr intake and Dart Pro-1 215cc heads. The engine is now in the car and I took it out for its maiden shake-down run yesterday evening. I only drove it for a handful of miles just to make sure everything was functioning as it should... oil pressure behaving itself, no water/fuel/oil leaks, etc, etc.

Lots of folks on here (and elsewhere) told me I'd have crap street manners with a Victor Jr intake and it would be a dog to drive on the street. Lots of folks also said 215cc heads would be 'too big' for a street-driven 383. Well, my first impressions were how WELL-mannered the car is... it idles at 500rpm (just), but I've got it set to about 950. It lugs from very low down without complaining and it seems happy cruising in 5th (manual trans) at 1,500rpm. I'd say that's pretty darn good street manners. When I nail it, it just takes off. Torque on the dyno was very flat with 400lbft from under 2,000rpm and just shy of 500HP at the top end. Interestingly, the bone stock Holley carb was jetted perfectly right out the box and produced more power than a tricked-out Quick Fuel (based on the Holley HP series). We also tried a 950cfm carb that was laying around and didn't get anymore power up top.

At some point, I wouldn't mind trying my old Performer RPM intake on it just to see if I can tell a difference as there wasn't time to swap it out on the dyno with all the other little things that end-up taking time when dyno'ing a fresh motor. My engine builder said I'd be wasting my time with the Performer RPM as he knew the combo I have with the Victor Jr 'just plain works'. I must admit, it's hard to imagine the Performer RPM would improve on what I have now.

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Old 07-14-2011, 10:17 PM
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215cc's should be very streetable on a 383. Hell I have a carbed 6.0 LS engine with 260cc intake runners and its streetable even with only 364 cubes.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Just went and searched back for your dyno numbers post.

The numbers are dead smack right where they should be for that combo.

Good stuff.
My engine builder (well, he specced the combo and took care of the bottom end, I did all the top end assembly and blue-printing) had a recent dyno sheet for another motor using the same combo that gave 526hp. I was a bit disappointed not to break the magic 500hp, but the heads I'm using could definitely do with being port-matched... there's quite a bit of material that could be removed to match the ports with the Victor Jr intake. He reckoned port-matching the heads to the intake would get me very close to the 526hp sheet he had from the other motor. At the stage, I didn't want to pull the heads again and start grinding them, so maybe something for the future if the heads ever need to come off. Also, the other motor was using a CNC'd Victor Jr (mine has been v.lightly CNC'd at the edges of the ports). Not sure that would account for more than a couple of hp though.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:49 PM
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Just to follow-up on this now that I've had chance to take the car on a few more drives...

The car will take WOT in 1st without lighting the rears up... it scrabbles for traction, but still sticks it down. Hard change into 2nd again sees the rears scrabble a bit, but then it just sticks and goes. Car only weighs 2,400lbs with a 3.54:1 rear, so I'm surprised there aren't more traction issues.

With the gearing I've got, I must admit it's hard to get the motor spinning anymore than around 5,000rpm on the street... you're just going too fast already. If I put the Performer RPM intake on, do you think it would make a significant difference? It would be kinda nice to light-up the rears in 1st and 2nd from a roll, which I can't do right now.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:55 AM
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Car is an AC Cobra replica (please no flaming over the non-Ford motor... using an SBC is common practice over here). I always hesitate to mention the car cuz I know some guys over that side of the pond can get quite 'passionate' about using anything other than a Ford motor.

Anyway... trans is a Tremec TKO500 and tyres are Toyo Proxes (think width is 255, but will have to check).

Here's something I was thinking about on the train on the way into work this morning... I'm using a stock HEI distributor with stock advance springs. I've replaced the coil and module for aftermarket, but the advance mech is all stock. Haven't yet checked at what RPM timing is all-in by, but it sounded quite high when I was checking the timing with the timing light under the hood. So, I suspect I could go with lighter springs, which might liven things up a bit?

Carb fuelling was perfect on the dyno with the stock jets. Would there really be any benefit from messing with them?
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
You need to do more than just change the advance springs.
The stock mechanical advance curve is not right for that motor.
The stock vacuum advance needs tuning also.


Jetting: The motor don;t care what you want. It wants what it wants.
Yes the on road jetting may be different than the dyno.
Drag testing will tell. A wide band AFR gauge can help.
Right, the curve may not be right which is why I'm gonna try different advance springs. Weights should be OK though? If not, I've got some weights in a Moroso advance kit I have laying around somewhere.

Can you explain how the jetting could be different on the road compared to on a dyno? I thought one of the major benefits of using an engine dyno was so jetting, etc could be set in a controlled environment and tuned perfectly.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
I guess you never have bothered to read my many posts on ignition advance. Or you just don;t get it.
I can do without the prima donna attitude.

Anyone else care to comment? Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:12 PM
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Just wanted to update this with today's activities...

Checked my initial timing and it was 14* BTDC. I swapped the stock (at least, I assume they're stock... used distributor) advance springs for the lightest springs in my Moroso HEI curve kit. I also bumped my initial timing to 16* BTDC, so I now have 16* initial and 36* all-in by 2,500rpm. Car feels a bit better, but difficult to tell. Still sticks from a roll, but I tried a soft launch in 1st and it spun all the way through 1st and most of the way through 2nd, but the road surface wasn't great either... must try and fine some nice smooth black-top to try on. I'm still using vac. advance plugged into ported vacuum on the carb. I also have to say I found my secondaries were only opening maybe half-way as I had a minor disaster with the throttle cable and had to remount it a little further up the throttle arm, which now means the pedal hits the floor before the cable has fully opened the secondaries. This is fixable... I just need to take another look at it and remount the cable at the lowest position on the throttle arm.

Next step is I want to try F'BIRD's suggestion of setting my initial timing at 24* (might try 20* or 22* to begin with). Trouble is, I can't do that without getting tack welds in the slots on my distributor advance base plate to limit centrifugal advance, so that will have to wait a while as I don't own a welder.

If I set my initial in the 20-24* neighbourhood, can I still use ported vacuum advance, or would that be too much timing for the motor, even when cruising?

Also, I noticed the weights in my disributor are stamped '09' and are larger than the weights that came with the Moroso recurve kit. What's difference would it make fitting the smaller weights and is it something I should do?

Thanks.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:25 PM
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F'bird is right about the timing, moving from 14 initial to 24 initial will make a HUGE difference in low RPM street manners. This should all have been taken care of when you had it dyno tuned though- I suspect that your "tune" is probably faulty elsewhere if it is missing something as basic ad initial timing.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
F'bird is right about the timing, moving from 14 initial to 24 initial will make a HUGE difference in low RPM street manners. This should all have been taken care of when you had it dyno tuned though- I suspect that your "tune" is probably faulty elsewhere if it is missing something as basic ad initial timing.
During the dyno session, we dialled-in optimum total advance (34* BTDC), but that's it. Jetting was also, of course, checked and the mixture was right on the money with the stock jets.

Can I still run ported vac. advance with 24* initial?
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:58 PM
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If you are advancing the initial you must limit the mechanical so as not to exceed 35-36 total with vacuum advance out of the picture. Then the 12-14 added by the vacuum advance will have no adverse effect be it ported or manifold since the the total of them all together will only be approx 47-50.

As mentioned you need to limit both mech and vacuum advance and you will be fine with the higher initial timing at 20-24.

Then you may need to concern yourself with starter kick back or bucking with the high base timing when the mill is hot. Wait and see.

Depending on the dist you can in some cases limit the mechanical advance with a set screw that stops the rotor plate bar from adding advance once the edge of the plate reaches the head of the screw. This is different than the method of modifying/welding the slots or installing bushings on the spring posts. It is also much simpler and you won't need that welder

The vacuum advance limiter plate is here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99619-1/

or get the entire kit for a GM HEI which includes an adjustable can:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99600-1/

You will still need to find a way to limit the mech adv as the kit does not provide for this.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:58 PM
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Still thinking about this... is there much difference between running 14* initial + vac. advance connected to full manifold vacuum and running 24* initial with the vac. advance disconnected? With the weaker advance springs I've got in now, I've got total timing all-in by 2,500rpm, so those 2 approaches will only differ from one another below 2,500rpm.

Running with 14* initial + vac. advance connected to full manifold vacuum would certainly be easier than modifying the advance base plate to limit total timing and setting the initial at 24*.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:33 PM
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I understand. Guess I could test the effect of 24* initial by doing what you said (disconnect/plug vac advance) and installing heavy springs on the centrifugal mech. Then go for a drive and just make sure not to take it above 3,000rpm... that should mean my total timing shouldn't go over 34-36* and will let me know if the improvement is worth it. Sound good?
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:54 AM
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All of our 383 engines liked total timing of 32-34 degrees. 383s just don't like it around 36 like 350s do. We shoot for 20 degrees initial with 12 mechanical for 32 total. With your set up there's no way I'd change the VJ intake for an RPM. The Victor J is going to give you a better all around car. Your car is light. You won't miss the 10ft.lbs. of torque the Performer RPM may or may not give you. If you want to light em up from a roll, side step the clutch a bit, that'll light em up for you. Sounds like you got a solid high 10, low 11 second car on your hands. Good job and keep tuning with a good distributor. You need a solid, fully adjustable ignition system.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:32 AM
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good info. here, for sure !
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