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Old 09-28-2011, 10:42 PM
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An education on transmission coolers...

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion surrounding transmission cooler type, where to mount them, and how to mount them. One of the most important things to remember is, there are 2 very different types of coolers. One is a "tube and fin" design and the other is a "stacked plate" design. The "tube and fin" designs are completely worthless, and research has shown that they can actually heat the fluid up! How is that possible? We first proved this around 15 years ago. We had a Grand National that kept blowing fluid out the vent because of over heating. We tried a "tube and fin" cooler, but it didn't help. Next, we tried 2 coolers, in series. Still didn't help. We noticed that the fluis coming out of the coolers was still extremely hot, so we put temp guages on the in and the out and found fluid hotter coming out! Think about fluid dynamics. Anytime you ask fluid to change directions 180 degrees, it picks up pressure. Run a garden hose in a bucket and you'll notice what comes back at you has more pressure. Pressure generates heat. If you've got an air compressor, you'll notice that if you hold an air chuck to your hand it will start to get hot the longer you spray air on it. So, a "tune and fin" cooler is exactly what the name implies...It's a tube that is bent at 180 degree bends on each end and ran through a series of fins. The larger the cooler, the more bends, thus more heat generated.
Remember that Grand National? We took both large "tube and fin" coolers off and installed a single, much smaller "stacked plate" cooler and it fixed it! The "stacked plate" design resembles a small radiator, and is much more efficient, albeit a little more expensive.
External coolers should be ran in series whenever possible. It's best to run through the radiator first, then through an external cooler, and then back to the transmission. Water is a much better cooling medium than air. This is why all modern day engines are liquid cooled.
Where to mount the cooler is another often asked question. I hear all the time, "I want to mount it under my air dam so it'll get plenty of air going down the road"...That's all well and good, but what happens when you're at a stop light and the converter is generating it's most heat? The best place for a cooler is directly in front of the radiator, as close as you can get it. This way it uses your fan to pull air through the radiator, while the vehicle is sitting still. The other option is remote mounted with it's own dedicated fan. My cooler preferance is the Tru-Cool 4490. I use these on everything, including street cars with 4500 stall converters, and they work great.

Frank

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:38 AM
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Frank. there is so much misinformation in your post I don't know where to start, so I will leave it to others while I go bend some copper pipe in 180 degree arcs to hook into my household water line to create hot water for free so I can disconnect my hot water heater.
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by user151
Frank. there is so much misinformation in your post I don't know where to start, so I will leave it to others while I go bend some copper pipe in 180 degree arcs to hook into my household water line to create hot water for free so I can disconnect my hot water heater.
None of it's theory, it's proven facts. Now go work on your water heater and leave the car stuff to those who have been there and done it. There is absolutely NO misinformation in what I posted.

Frank
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user151
Frank. there is so much misinformation in your post I don't know where to start, so I will leave it to others while I go bend some copper pipe in 180 degree arcs to hook into my household water line to create hot water for free so I can disconnect my hot water heater.
For those of us who are in the dark, could you at least point to one or two items that you believe are incorrect? That way, this discussion could be productive rather than degenerating into a ****ing contest.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:36 PM
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Yes, by all means please tell everyone the results YOU had when YOU put temp guages on the in and out of a "tube and fin" cooler...

Frank
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:18 PM
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You're saying that a tube and fin design, in some cases, is actually going to cause enough heat due to the routing design of the fluid that the cooling benefits of having ambient air pass over the lines is counteracted by the heat generated due to fluid pressure? Not sure I buy that, unless you're using an overly constricted transmission cooler.
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:20 PM
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And the OP said "... so we put temp guages on the in and the out and found fluid hotter coming out! ..."

So tube and fin coolers actually create heat? Where did he put the trans cooler? You guys actually believe this?
I'm still bending copper pipe in my house to get free hot water....
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:25 PM
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Under what conditions did the test take place? What was the ambient air temperature? How long was the vehicle driven, and how was it driven? Where are the cooling fans of the radiator in relation to the trans cooler?

More information would be helpful in determining the amount of science behind the test .
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:41 PM
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A "normal" test drive. Fluid was routed through stock cooler and then external cooler(s). Cooler(s) were mounted directly in front of radiator. Airtemp was in the mid 70's. The key to all this is, one smaller stacked plate cooler fixed the car. These tests only covered a period of 2 days. Outside temp was the same for test drives with all cooler arrangements...

Frank
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Old 09-29-2011, 04:07 PM
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Did you try any other brand or size tube coolers to verify that it wasn't a design flaw specific to that unit or brand of units?
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy_Freud
Did you try any other brand or size tube coolers to verify that it wasn't a design flaw specific to that unit or brand of units?
Tried a small Hayden and then a larger and then 2 in series. Tested coolers to make certain they flowed through them.

Frank
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:29 PM
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So your conclusions were that with each of those coolers, during normal driving, the transmission fluid was warmer leaving the cooler than when entering. How were you measuring temperature?
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scnd70
There seems to be quite a bit of confusion surrounding transmission cooler type, where to mount them, and how to mount them. One of the most important things to remember is, there are 2 very different types of coolers. One is a "tube and fin" design and the other is a "stacked plate" design. The "tube and fin" designs are completely worthless, and research has shown that they can actually heat the fluid up! How is that possible? We first proved this around 15 years ago. We had a Grand National that kept blowing fluid out the vent because of over heating. We tried a "tube and fin" cooler, but it didn't help. Next, we tried 2 coolers, in series. Still didn't help. We noticed that the fluis coming out of the coolers was still extremely hot, so we put temp guages on the in and the out and found fluid hotter coming out! Think about fluid dynamics. Anytime you ask fluid to change directions 180 degrees, it picks up pressure. Run a garden hose in a bucket and you'll notice what comes back at you has more pressure. Pressure generates heat. If you've got an air compressor, you'll notice that if you hold an air chuck to your hand it will start to get hot the longer you spray air on it. So, a "tune and fin" cooler is exactly what the name implies...It's a tube that is bent at 180 degree bends on each end and ran through a series of fins. The larger the cooler, the more bends, thus more heat generated.
Remember that Grand National? We took both large "tube and fin" coolers off and installed a single, much smaller "stacked plate" cooler and it fixed it! The "stacked plate" design resembles a small radiator, and is much more efficient, albeit a little more expensive.
External coolers should be ran in series whenever possible. It's best to run through the radiator first, then through an external cooler, and then back to the transmission. Water is a much better cooling medium than air. This is why all modern day engines are liquid cooled.
Where to mount the cooler is another often asked question. I hear all the time, "I want to mount it under my air dam so it'll get plenty of air going down the road"...That's all well and good, but what happens when you're at a stop light and the converter is generating it's most heat? The best place for a cooler is directly in front of the radiator, as close as you can get it. This way it uses your fan to pull air through the radiator, while the vehicle is sitting still. The other option is remote mounted with it's own dedicated fan. My cooler preferance is the Tru-Cool 4490. I use these on everything, including street cars with 4500 stall converters, and they work great.

Frank
I don't know where to begin. you need to pick up some books on physics, hydraulics, thermodynamics and get reading.

Bogie
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Siggy_Freud
So your conclusions were that with each of those coolers, during normal driving, the transmission fluid was warmer leaving the cooler than when entering. How were you measuring temperature?
Inline temperature guages.

Frank
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbogie
I don't know where to begin. you need to pick up some books on physics, hydraulics, thermodynamics and get reading.

Bogie
We KNOW what it does. That's the problem with alot of you with "book smarts". You don't know a damn thing if you actually put you in front of the parts! I seen for myself what the results are. I work and test in the real world...not in a library. Go read some more books and leave the mechanical stuff for those who work with it.

Frank
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