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Old 08-30-2006, 07:08 PM
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EFI fuel pump

I installed a 5.0 EFI in my 64 1/2 Mustang back in 1990 and at the time not much was available for the fuel system so I modified a 1988 tank and installed it along with the in-tank fuel pump to get everything up and running. I tried to make this as neat as possible but there is still a small hump in the trunk floor and the tank is limited to only about 12 gallons. I am looking to replace the tank with a stock unit and an external in-line fuel pump and I would like some suggestions on fuel pump selection, I am concerned mostly with reliability so stock EFI flow rates are ok. Most of the pumps I find are low pressure carburetor types or race type units.

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Old 08-30-2006, 07:17 PM
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I have seen companies that can take the stock tank, modify it's ring size to accept the in tank pump and also insert a baffle to keep it submerged. You could then use a higher pressure FOX pump.

If no one posts the source, I will look for it in the morning.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:30 PM
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That would be great if I could use my in tank pump with a stock 65 Mustang tank. I considered modifying the new tank at first so that may be an option, I would just like to get rid of that dang hump and increase my fuel capacity.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:52 PM
aka Duke of URL
 
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I'll chase it down in the morning Red..
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:11 PM
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I used a 86 T/bird frame mount fuel pump mounted on the frame near the wheel well for the 69 Mustang. Look for any injected Ford made in the mid to late 80s. Ford used a lot of external fuel pumps in that era before in tank assembly's. Some of the 80s fords used 2 pumps, 1 booster in the tank which ran about 7 lbs, and the frame pump which produced about 60 lbs. The fuel regulator drops the pressure down to 35-45lb at the injector manifold or throttle body. I used the stock fuel sender/pick up, drilled an extra hole in it for the return line and had a radiator shop solder in the extra fitting.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:23 PM
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http://www.rockvalleyantiqueautoparts.com/catalog.htm
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Old 08-31-2006, 05:34 AM
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Jim,

I don't see a modified MUSTANG fuel tank in the catalog.

2-manytoyz;

Using an in-tank pump greatly increases performance in that one can use the latest FOX/SN-95 pumps (whatever performance level desired). A rail pump still has to draw fuel (instead of the pump pushing it). The rail pump runs a lot hotter than the in-tank pump. FORD abandoned that design fairly early.

I am still looking for that modification kit. It consists of a new bung that will accept the later pump and a sump that goes directly below the pump so as not to lose pressure at any point. You just modify (or have done) the OEM tank.
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:36 AM
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I did not know that ford used a stand-alone external pump on the T-bird, everything I found used both the frame mounted pump and in tank pump or just the in tank pump, I will check that out too.

Jim, That Rockvalley place is new to me and it looks really good, LOTS of goodies besides fuel pumps, thanks for the link

That tank mod sounds better the more I think about it but if a stand-alone Ford built frame pump is available I will look into that too.

Thanks everyone
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Old 08-31-2006, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred

I did not know that ford used a stand-alone external pump on the T-bird, everything I found used both the frame mounted pump and in tank pump or just the in tank pump, I will check that out too.
Red,

The system using two pumps was a very early design. The pump in the tank was a low pressure transfer pump so the high pressure pump on the rail wouldn't have to work so hard drawing and pushing (high heat). FORD solved the problem finally by putting just one pump in the tank as a pusher and that and the fuel acting as a coolant solved the pump troubles it experienced in the early models.

Using an external pump usually requires special mounting to allow gravity to prime/feed the pump. They just suck at sucking...

I am still searching. I fear I am going to have to open my stash of SUPER FORD magazines. I think that is where I saw the kit as I think about it more. Give me a couple of days.
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Old 08-31-2006, 06:29 PM
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No hurry and I genuinely appreciate the effort.
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Old 09-02-2006, 10:08 AM
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I cannot find that ad to save my life Red. I know it exists(ed).

I have called out the reserves. In the meanwhile, I shall endure...

-REQUEST AT MUSTANGS AND MORE FORUM-
______________________________________

Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968

Also Early FORD Special Service Tools


-Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln Engine Forum

Last edited by poncho62; 10-21-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 09-02-2006, 11:04 AM
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Why could'nt a person put a low pressure inline in front of the high pressure pump. The pumps out of the old chevy luvs were just about bullet proof. I had one on a homemade parts washer that was used almost everyday. If it quit you just popped the cap off the back and cleaned the magnet.
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Old 09-02-2006, 11:48 AM
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Well,

To me (IMO), the use of a system abandoned twenty years ago (by FORD-have no idea of GM) just doesn't make sense. The actual positioning of the pump within the tank just makes it seem so much more practical (to me). Both external pumps would be mounted on the rail and be subject to overheating, weather, possibly cause vibration/noise and possible bad fuel ingestion (you do not want to add the additional restriction of a fuel filter before an external pressure pump.

It may be that Jim will have to go external (as I cannot seem to deliver) but there are much better designs for this also.

Whether he is wanting high performance or not, things have evolved so much that two pumps (especially the transfer being external also) seems counterproductive and overly expensive.

If going external, you would want to braize in a 3/8" supply and a 5/16" return, be able to keep the sender and keep the inlet filter (FORD Basic PN 9A011) on the assembly. I would also go with braided line connections at the sending unit.

Now this is just my thoughts. I am overly anal, I admit it. But if you are going to do something and spend money on it, do it correctly.
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:13 PM
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Red,

-HERE IS A DISCUSSION of FITTING A LATER TANK IN THE 65 FOR MORE CAPACITY-

One way to plumb an external pump;



This pump is required to bring the fuel to it. It is attached to a mounting braket that is just simply attached to the floor pan.

It would be better to have the actual pump mounted below the outlet tube level to decrease it's workload. The mounting bracket should be mounted on a rail with an insulator.

There were mid-eighties applications that used a mounting bracket/shield for the external pump that included a place to hold the fuel filter. You just have to design it to work the pump less. The pump will also need a seperate 12V dedicated circuit (relay) to make sure it receives full BAT voltage at all speeds (WOT).

Now some of these early rail mounted pumps (OEM) were only required to feed 14PSI injectors so make sure you have the needed pressure (43PSI) once installed.
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:38 PM
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Didn't know I could use the later model tank, knowing that will help too since I have not bought the tank yet. As far as the wiring I have the factory 1990 wiring complete with the factory relay and inertia switch but I moved the inertia switch from under the passenger seat to the trunk area. I believe I had one of the first EFI conversions done since I made this swap back in '90 and there was next to no info available not to even mention parts so I just had to use what I could find at the time. About the only answers I got to my questions back then was "you can't do that!" Thanks guys for the help I am going to look at modifying the new tank when I get it and decide which way to go then. I definitely have more info to go on now thanks a bunch
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