end mill advise needed - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Garage - Tools
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:26 PM
35terraplane's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MN, ON THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
Age: 70
Posts: 1,294
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 48 Times in 42 Posts
end mills

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
I have and use carbide mills a lot and I agree that the statement not to use them is bad advice, it would be much better to say not to use them until the operator is experienced enough to understand how to properly use them. Carbide mills are expensive and VERY unforgiving, easily becoming just a chipped piece of (expensive) scrap if used to learn with. Maybe the first few hours should be used practicing with the Chinese junk HSS mills then after learning the basics switch to good quality tooling. As far as carbide being expensive I have found that properly used it can actually be cheaper in the long run but as I said before very unforgiving and will not tolerate mistakes or abuse.
Red I agree, that's why I said once you get used to the speeds and feeds you can switch.

We did a test on a production machine, one using HSS the other carbide, now we were making bullets, turning the cases, back by the primer hole. Both machines were putting out 120 parts a minute, the tools could run until they had to be sharpened when a burr would start, the HSS would make around 200,000 before it started to get a burr. The carbide would easy run 1 1/4 million with no burr.

So like Red said it can be cheaper in the long run, And don't forget scape carbide brings pretty good money so if they do get busted have a can to put them in.

Bob

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:44 PM
35terraplane's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MN, ON THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
Age: 70
Posts: 1,294
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 48 Times in 42 Posts
End mill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figbash
Bob,

Carbide definitely has its place. When machining tough materials like tool steel or stainless or for a large number of parts, carbide tooling is definitely worthwhile. But for a neophyte machinist like the OP, working with a bench mill, carbide is not a good choice. It is more expensive, extremely brittle and therefore much less forgiving than high speed steel. The first time he bumps a workpiece too hard or the tool grabs, or it gets dropped on the floor, it's going to chip or break. Also, carbide is not the best choice for aluminum without using coolant as a lubricant, it will load up much more readily than high speed steel. I do prototype machining for a living and have both carbide and high speed steel tooling on hand, but for the most part, HHS is my tool of choice.

Tom
I guess we will have to disagree, having a machine shop for 30 years we used both, but most used carbide, we did both production and some very small runs carbide on alum does need coolant but we used it on many materials, with carbide you can get a better finish. We not only used them in mills but in CNC machines turning centers. many times we would set up with HSS then switch to carbide. I have almost all my end mills at home, carbide. But like I said once he learns the machine they might be the last he will ever have to buy, unless he screws one up, and believe me I have broke my share of carbide, more on the drill side.

IMO too fast of RPM kill more drills and end mills than every thing else. some people should be forbidden from using hand drills. They burn the end up before the drill can make a point.

Bob
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:11 PM
bentwings's Avatar
bentwings
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St.Paul, Minn
Age: 72
Posts: 1,788
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Quote:
IMO too fast of RPM kill more drills and end mills than every thing else. some people should be forbidden from using hand drills. They burn the end up before the drill can make a point.
Haha I love it It's like the electrical guys in the shop...they need special training to use anything except a screwdriver.

I think learning speeds and feeds for a while with HHS tooling then switch to carbide. It sure helps to use coolant (the right kind) with any tool if you are going to push it at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:02 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,909
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
It sure helps to use coolant (the right kind) with any tool if you are going to push it at all.


With Carbide coolant needs to be kept constant if it is used, or so I have been told, because letting it run dry and then hitting it with coolant can cause chipping when the coolant hits the hot carbide. I am not sure to how true this is but it does make sense, more opinions on this one?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:17 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,909
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
Haha I love it It's like the electrical guys in the shop...they need special training to use anything except a screwdriver.


Not to pick on electricians but this guy did happen to be just that! This fellow was trying to drill a hole through a 1/8" steel plate to run a cable trough and had the part set up on a drill press using a 1" bit and 1800 rpm! When I checked on him to see what was taking so long he had gone though the three 1" bits we had on hand, one of them was new. I tried to explain that he needed to slow the thing down but I was told that "I reckon I know how to drill a #*@#!*) hole" so I just walked off and left him to his misery!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:44 PM
35terraplane's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MN, ON THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
Age: 70
Posts: 1,294
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 48 Times in 42 Posts
End mill

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Not to pick on electricians but this guy did happen to be just that! This fellow was trying to drill a hole through a 1/8" steel plate to run a cable trough and had the part set up on a drill press using a 1" bit and 1800 rpm! When I checked on him to see what was taking so long he had gone though the three 1" bits we had on hand, one of them was new. I tried to explain that he needed to slow the thing down but I was told that "I reckon I know how to drill a #*@#!*) hole" so I just walked off and left him to his misery!
Like the saying goes SPEED KILLS.

Bob
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 06:33 AM
cranky1's Avatar
Just stuck
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pasagetdowndena, TX
Age: 63
Posts: 436
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok guys....at best, the OP has what I refer to as a drill mill. Congrats on your new toy by the way but this machine is basically a utility machine and it does not have the rigidity that a full blown milling machine does. The spindle and spindle bearings on these types of machines are usually not even close to being as good as a Bridgport type milling machine so imo, don't even worry about using carbide milling tools in it. Imo, you'll only end up with a can full of chipped or broken carbide scrap. Stick with the high speed steed cutters until you are sure the machine can handle it. Our instrument shop had a drill mill but it wasn't up to doing milling work very well plus with no power feed, it's all hand feed which isn't exactly all that easy and the slack in the ways was 10 times worse than a Bridgeport type machine making things even more difficult. Other words, keeping from breaking tools was difficult at best. You also need to learn the difference between climb cutting vs conventional cutting. You can climb cut with a machine that has no slack but you will break tooling with a lesser machine....but it's always best not to climb cut. There's lots of material out there to read about machining and if it makes you feel more comfortable, practice on blocks of wood to get the hang of the machine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 01:49 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,909
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
I agree 100% about not using carbide on one of those mill/drills if it is the usual round column type, the column itself is not the problem in this case it's just that the entire design of that type is usually quite loose and not very rigid, basically they are little more than a drill press on steroids. Some of the square column mill/drills however, like those by Rong-Fu, are tight enough to handle carbide quite well since they were designed primarily as a mill and are a lot more rigid where it counts..

Also that's a good warning about the climbing cut, with the usual amount of backlash found in these mills things can get out of hand in a hurry!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Garage - Tools posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing advise and help needed STUDE55DOG Engine 12 10-31-2011 09:04 PM
454 heads advise needed Augusto Engine 10 02-07-2008 06:59 AM
Car Speakers Advise Needed Ghetto Jet Hotrodders' Lounge 7 07-21-2004 11:31 PM
convereter advise needed...turbo 400 Dave Y. Transmission - Rearend 4 02-12-2003 03:00 AM
Rewiring Advise Needed loren Electrical 7 04-18-2002 09:20 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.