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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
No such thing as a STUPID question! There is some very knowledgeable guy's here but sometimes I think some people take that knowledge for granted. We need to realize that there is a lot of people interested in this hobby that have no experience and they are going to ask what some people call stupid questions and when they do they get flamed.
Pretty simple solution,Don't post in the thread.
-------------------------------------

I think you hit it, pretty well.
First I do like the engine forum and even though I have built engines for years (only for myself) I would never try and answer a question on there.
First my 30 years of experience is all self taught and reading this forum the knowledge contained by some of the individuals there is just unbelievable.
So the last thing anyone on there would want or need is my opinion.

The engine forum like the body-forum is a victim of its own success and the proof would be the amount of posts and number of members that participate.
I hear the same thing from painters that I know or have recommended the body forum to is they can't stand the same-old question over and over and a comparison would be what Carb VS What cheap paint gun, all been covered 1.7 million times.

It is just going to happen when you have this popular of a hot rod site, so we take the good with the bad.
Bad habit I have is just looking at the title and may never open the post and it may be something I can help with and different from the title.

I'm sure its as hard for a master mechanic as it is for a master painter not to be a little snotty but I try to view it (not with total success, but I try) that when the guy posted the question, it was the most important thing on his mind at the time and should get some help.

There is really no way for the murderators to sort these posts out as far as I can see.

Edit:
Another thing when a post looks snotty it may not have been intended.
About a year ago I was talking with Dave IC and he pointed out that my four word sentences were coming off harsh, hell I was just getting to the point but like he pointed out may and did offend some people. I have worked at it.

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Last edited by BarryK; 12-04-2008 at 04:43 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:42 PM
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I tend to only look at the engine forum occasionally and seldom post there simply because if it has to do with a Chebbie engine, it's most likely been asked or done before - as Barry said, 1.7MM times either here or one of the other popular sites. Don't get me wrong - Chebbie engines have been popular since the '60s - big time so they must be something right.

Mikey's suggestion that a sticky or a header with a big SEARCH FIRST on it might work - but probably not. Human nature just doesn't work that way

I do think that the engine forum should be broken into sub forums for specific engines - i.e. SB Chevy, BB Chevy, the same for Ford, plus add Chryslers then an 'Others' category.



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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
I tend to only look at the engine forum occasionally and seldom post there simply because if it has to do with a Chebbie engine, it's most likely been asked or done before - as Barry said, 1.7MM times either here or one of the other popular sites. Don't get me wrong - Chebbie engines have been popular since the '60s - big time so they must be something right.

Mikey's suggestion that a sticky or a header with a big SEARCH FIRST on it might work - but probably not. Human nature just doesn't work that way

I do think that the engine forum should be broken into sub forums for specific engines - i.e. SB Chevy, BB Chevy, the same for Ford, plus add Chryslers then an 'Others' category.



Dave W
I'll second that motion!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 01:03 AM
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Pardon me. I'm new here but I totally understand what you guys are talking about.

I'm a member of a few different forums. One in particular, HybridZ.org, they have a "Search First" clause in the rules specifically for this reason.
At times it feels a bit heavy handed, but it is necessary...and does go a long way in helping quell having the same questions asked over and over that could easily be remedied by a search.

If it's a question that the regulars, moderators, or admins KNOW has been answered previously, they simply post a link to the rules followed by a quote of the "search first" rule in bold, close and move the thread to a graveyard section.

On the flip side, I moderate a forum based on computer hardware and software. I am CONSTANTLY wading through thread after thread of "which part is better" threads that would easily be answered by going to the second or third page. But the owners, like you, don't wish to be seen as "ogres". So they won't let the moderators move or close those threads...and like your Engine section...is totally out of hand with lazy questions.

Might I suggest a section where members can post their own buildup journal where nobody BUT the thread creator is allowed to post in that thread. Say, I posted a thread on the status of my current project...nobody else is allowed to post in it without a small consequence.

That, and a "Search First" rule would do wonders. But, it MUST be enforced. Also, any of the more illustrious members should be asked to create comprehensive FAQ's to be stickied. Cam selection, fabrication tips, Rear gear selection, etc...

Doing these few things would help weed out the dreamers from the doers. Dreaming is fine, but you guys have to decide what kind of site you want to have. A serious and informative community of like minded individuals? OR a dreamers' "What if" site?
Please make it the first option.

Take a stop by www.HybridZ.org and see how it's set up. I think that's kinda what Hotrodders.com should strive to...or even better. Otherwise, the older experienced folks that I'm here to learn from will tire of the, for lack of a better word, immature atmosphere and move on.

In case you don't care to navigate over to their site, I've at least added their rules and guidelines in an image and attached it to this thread. I hope you guys can read it...it's pretty big on my 30" widescreen monitor.

Regards,
-Jay
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Last edited by Filmjay; 12-05-2008 at 01:16 AM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 05:00 PM
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I'll gladly offer up some time each evening to aggressively move the posts in question to an S.O.S. forum with all of the other posts of the same kind.

If a separate forum for these monotonous posts isn't feasible then might I suggest an Advanced Engine Tech forum? One for discussions that are a little more involved than the cam,carb,intake,virtual dyno stuff. I'd still volunteer some time to sift through any posts that might not belong there, if any help is needed.



Larry
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 01:16 AM
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I love it when you answer the poster's question and then they want to argue about it. And my really big pet peeve is when they figure out what the problem was, they never come back to the forum and report it.

Go figure !!!!!!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 11:08 AM
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I like the "Advanced Engine Concepts" subforum idea, it would concentrate the more technical threads and avoid wading through the more basic postings.

Maybe a "Cylinder Head" and "Fuel Systems & Induction" subforum is not a bad idea too.

One thing is for sure, everyday there is a whole page of new postings to read, this place is anything but boring!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 12:17 PM
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If we're here airing "pet peeves" ...

Mine is the classic:
"My car doesn't run right"
"OK ...drive it closer to the phone so I can tell what's wrong with it!"
kinds of questions and replies.

People go completely hog wild with seemingly ridiculous "solutions" ...

Diagnosis just isn't usually something you can do very well without being there, and as has been pointed out ... meaningful solutions are often by-passed because someone else says "I know for a fact that ...."

The result is a "throw parts at it until it runs" scenario which likely cost the poor guy more than it would have to have the repair properly diagnosed and repaired in the first place!

So please guys ... if you're not "pretty sure", at least have the decency to say so.

If you're the guy that asks the question and gets 1,000 different suggestions ...
PLEASE take the time to respond with which one actually worked.

Not only is that common courtesy, but how is anyone to learn anything otherwise? The dolts that offer bad advice will only continue to offer bad advice until they know better, right?

BTW ... all of this probably answers the whole "Why nobody ever bothers searching in the first place." problem, IMO.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:56 PM
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as far as Ideas for splitting up the engine forum how about this....When starting a new thread. Have a checklist for the poster.

Thread title __________________________________

1. Are you looking for an estimate on HP/TQ? (A yes answer would post this on the hotrodding basics).

2. What is your experience level with this type of Engine (check one) less than 5 years...more than 5 years...more than 10 years.

3. Do you have the exact part numbers, casting numbers, bore and stroke information, valve lash specs, lift and duration info, etc? (A "no" answer would put this question in a lower skill level.)

4. Have you used the search function of this website? (A no answer would run their thread title in the search engine.)

5. Many questions/problems require further information to give other members a more complete picture of how to answer your questions....How often will you be able to return to this site to review and respond to these posts? (check one) Hourly, Daily, Weekly, more than every 7 days. (I think you could put a little something here about stale threads being moved)


I am sure there could be more questions added to narrow down exactly what the user's skill level, commitment, (and ability to take advice) and then you could fit these threads into three distinct categories.

1. Novice (for the guys who want to run dual detroit blowers on the motor they found for 300 bucks and dropped in their 89 pickup)

2. Shade Tree Technician (for the guys who have a clue but aren't sure of the best course and are willing to learn)

3. Professional (for the guys who can recite torque specs, know what the duration and lift of a lunati 60010 without looking, and have been doing this a long time...you know the ones)

You could even put a restriction on these categories like...if you don't have over 50 posts you can't post in Category 2, and if you haven't been a member over 6 months AND have more than 100 posts you can't start a thread in category 3)

I don't pretend to know a lot about computers but I am sure this could be done with some fancy keyboarding.

Good Luck though.....
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 11:37 PM
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I believe it would be difficult to differentiate between the experienced, and unexperienced, in any forum on this website, or any website for that matter.

Putting limits on numbers of posts, would be a detriment for all of us. Thus depriving all of us a new members contribution. How would one 'police' this?

There has been some viable suggestions on this thread so far, and I realize the band width involved to make changes.

This is not an easy task, and I hope a resolution to it could come soon.

Last edited by carsavvycook; 12-07-2008 at 12:30 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2008, 03:54 PM
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Couple of thoughts....
First-time posters probably don't have a clue as to how to navigate to the search feature or to the knowledge base or to the tech article wiki. They may never have been on a forum before and don't even know these tools are available to them.

I realize there are those individuals who will always look for the easy way without doing any of the work. They are possibly victims of our liberal education system where everything has been handed to them with little or no effort on their part. (No child left behind). If I were in charge, I'd leave a few of them behind like was done in my generation. Enough of that, I'm getting off on a tangent.

What about this? When you click the "new thread" button, a screen pops up asking if you have used the tools available on this site to answer your question. Then it links to the wiki, knowledge base and the search thread tools and explains how to use them. A button at the bottom of the page might say "Yes, I have searched the tools available to me on this site, but still can't find the answer to my question. Please forward me to New Thread."
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2008, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1
Couple of thoughts....
First-time posters probably don't have a clue as to how to navigate to the search feature or to the knowledge base or to the tech article wiki. They may never have been on a forum before and don't even know these tools are available to them.

I realize there are those individuals who will always look for the easy way without doing any of the work. They are possibly victims of our liberal education system where everything has been handed to them with little or no effort on their part. (No child left behind). If I were in charge, I'd leave a few of them behind like was done in my generation. Enough of that, I'm getting off on a tangent.

What about this? When you click the "new thread" button, a screen pops up asking if you have used the tools available on this site to answer your question. Then it links to the wiki, knowledge base and the search thread tools and explains how to use them. A button at the bottom of the page might say "Yes, I have searched the tools available to me on this site, but still can't find the answer to my question. Please forward me to New Thread."
Best Idea yet!!!!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
Best Idea yet!!!!
X 2, I like it...

K
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2008, 07:34 PM
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This forum uses VBulletin, so the possibility of the above idea is possible and has already been implemented......


http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=151714
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2008, 11:24 AM
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Hey guys....Got a little off topic there.......I split off what I considered to be off topic and dumped them.....If I took what you considered a valid point to this thread, ...Sorry...... ...Make your point again ......but lets try and stay on topic, as this may improve a problem that has come up time and time again...thanks
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