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Old 06-20-2011, 11:56 AM
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Engine Build Challenge/ Max Power From Stock Parts

In these challenging economic times, not everyone can afford the latest trick whatever, and besides, with all the stuff that is out there, it can become a brainless exercise.

So let's put some restrictions on things and see what we can come up with.

Here are the parameters.

Stock longblock, stock cylinder heads, no porting

Any compression ratio, any valvetrain combination

Pump gas or E85 compatible ( no race gas )

Carburetion or EFI open in terms of CFM rating.

Headers are fine.

Aftermarket intakes are ok, but bonus points given for stock intakes.

7000 rpm limit

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Old 06-20-2011, 02:13 PM
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Porting should be allowed

Porting should be allowed/encouraged as your not adding parts, your just trying to make them better
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:28 PM
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If you're looking for the highest power numbers, you'll likely see them out of a large displacement block coupled with the best flowing heads. Probably an 8.1L vortec-based build with Mark IV heads would be my guess.

This is not considering factory forced induction vehicles I assume?
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanspeed1
In these challenging economic times, not everyone can afford the latest trick whatever, and besides, with all the stuff that is out there, it can become a brainless exercise.

So let's put some restrictions on things and see what we can come up with...
What is this, kindergarten?

If you have a question, ask it. Moving to basics.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:54 PM
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Kindergarten? Good thing I have a thick skin.

There's nothing in what I asked that was basic. If anything, it should make a person think a lot harder about making an engine powerful or a car fast.

Last edited by cleanspeed1; 06-20-2011 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanspeed1
In these challenging economic times, not everyone can afford the latest trick whatever, and besides, with all the stuff that is out there, it can become a brainless exercise.

So let's put some restrictions on things and see what we can come up with.

Here are the parameters.

Stock longblock, stock cylinder heads, no porting

Any compression ratio, any valvetrain combination

Pump gas or E85 compatible ( no race gas )

Carburetion or EFI open in terms of CFM rating.

Headers are fine.

Aftermarket intakes are ok, but bonus points given for stock intakes.

7000 rpm limit
Just how stock are the parts? You can get some pretty trick stuff that came on production cars over the years.

Bogie
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:30 PM
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Take a look at a 1969 zl1 427. In stock for it still makes twice the power over most other engines. I'll take that engine and destroy anything else on the road. No need to modify it if you start out with a good motor. You need to be more descriptive in your question.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Just how stock are the parts? You can get some pretty trick stuff that came on production cars over the years.

Bogie
You get what I'm saying. Factory available, off the assembly line, in the boneyard, standard replacement, easy and cheap to get with emphasis on sciencing out the combination for a particular goal.

Here's an example: Boneyard 5.3L LS motor, stock unported heads, stock bottom end, only changes are: hot cam and valvetrain, upgraded manifold, injectors and programming.

If it rolled off the assembly line with it, it's OK.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog7373
Take a look at a 1969 zl1 427. In stock for it still makes twice the power over most other engines. I'll take that engine and destroy anything else on the road. No need to modify it if you start out with a good motor. You need to be more descriptive in your question.
No limited production units. Instead of an L88 or ZL1, a run of the mill, oval port big block.

Like I said, easy to get, nothing rare.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:38 PM
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If I understand this correctly, you are looking to see what can be done with stock parts that can be installed in any motor of the same family (Chevy Gen I, LTx, LSx, etc) without making any modifications? What about any machine shop-related costs?


As Mr. Tech Inspector 1 would surely point out, many combos for Chevys have been covered here: "Small Block Chevy Dynoed Combos". Those should give some ideas.


If anyone is considering doing this, I for one am very interested in following such a project (or projects). Being one of the many who have neither access to parts, nor the tools for building and testing, I'm sure I would learn quite a bit, provided this thread doesn't turn into a bench racing/DynoSim conversation. Of course, many of you may have already built and tested such combos, so it would be cool to read what you found.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1silverhawk
If I understand this correctly, you are looking to see what can be done with stock parts that can be installed in any motor of the same family (Chevy Gen I, LTx, LSx, etc) without making any modifications? What about any machine shop-related costs?


As Mr. Tech Inspector 1 would surely point out, many combos for Chevys have been covered here: "Small Block Chevy Dynoed Combos". Those should give some ideas.


If anyone is considering doing this, I for one am very interested in following such a project (or projects). Being one of the many who have neither access to parts, nor the tools for building and testing, I'm sure I would learn quite a bit, provided this thread doesn't turn into a bench racing/DynoSim conversation. Of course, many of you may have already built and tested such combos, so it would be cool to read what you found.
You hit it on the head, and it's not limited to make or model.

This isn't a "throw money at it" situation, it's about putting the money where it needs to be.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:52 PM
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Made 540hp and 590 ftlbs under 5800 rpm for $2700. 455 Pontiac, probably would have made more on E85. I suppose I could dyno test the engine that has those heads on it now, but it has a smaller cam in it. It ran 11.70@115 with too much gear in a 3700lb car, out of RPM before 1000 ft. It was the blue Formula in my avatar.

This is kinda what I do. Low budget builds using mostly stock parts with upgrades where prudent or necessary.
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumpin455
those heads
I'd be interested in knowing what they are.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumpin455
Made 540hp and 590 ftlbs under 5800 rpm for $2700. 455 Pontiac, probably would have made more on E85. I suppose I could dyno test the engine that has those heads on it now, but it has a smaller cam in it. It ran 11.70@115 with too much gear in a 3700lb car, out of RPM before 1000 ft. It was the blue Formula in my avatar.

This is kinda what I do. Low budget builds using mostly stock parts with upgrades where prudent or necessary.
You hit the heart of what I was getting after.

Anyone can spend big money on a motor. It takes true talent and skill to make maximum power with minimal money.

I look at the Engine Masters Challenge, and most of the winners are way out of reach economically for most people. John Kaase is not cheap. Everytime he wins he probably has 5 figures tied up into it.

Maybe a dollar figure should be added to the challenge. Most power developed for under $3000.00; the further under that mark gets bonus points.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog7373
Take a look at a 1969 zl1 427. In stock for it still makes twice the power over most other engines. I'll take that engine and destroy anything else on the road. No need to modify it if you start out with a good motor. You need to be more descriptive in your question.
Less than 70 1969 ZL1s were built by the factory, this rates right up there with genuine Hemi Cuda's and Shotgun Mustangs for being truly rare.

Bogie
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