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Old 11-14-2010, 02:45 PM
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Engine build help 383 2 bolt 1 pc crank

Hi everyone I have been a long time reader and first time poster, I have been a bowtie guy about a decade ago and now I am getting into the swing of things.

The Car 79' camaro - Long story short, I was told it was a 350, built and bored.... TH350 3.73 gears yadda yadda yadda.

What I got, a 305 2.70 gears no kickdown cable as its to short cause the car originally came with a 6Cyl.

What I did (headgasket went bad) (found out the 5.0 situation) took a set of 062" vortecs bolted them on and put in a 420 I/E cam runs better rebuilt the Carb. (actually former GM carb rebuild trainer from the early 80's built it)

NOW ON TO THE REAL SITUATION -

I have a 350 2 bolt vortec block with roller lifters. I want to make 400 HP 400 - 425 Ft lbs. reliably and affordably I have a good relationship with my local machinst and I am a full time Auto Technician.

I am planning on a 383 engine with this kit,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...Q5fAccessories

I called and chatted with them and they seem like a decent bunch of guys.

Does anyone have a better deal?

This is my intake
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-S...item2eb13dfe51



I need help with a CAM selection, and Carb Selection (can I tune the Q-jet to handle the added cubes.

These will be my springs for the Heads to handle extra lift.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VORTE...item483d355b2a


Will the stock 1.5 1.4 valves be sufficient or should I go to 2.02 1.60's

I am running a 3.73 Limited slip in an 8.5" 10 bolt rear end.
Which I picked up out of a 87 Burb with factory LSD.


I know its a lot ??? I am looking for an affordable setup that will error on the side of torque and great streetability I need it to handle 93 octane in VA,

Remember I have a freshly built set of Vortecs on the motor currently and a set of 1 5/16 headers as well.

Lets start figuring this out.

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Old 11-14-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
I have a 350 2 bolt vortec block with roller lifters. I want to make 400 HP 400 - 425 Ft lbs. reliably and affordably I have a good relationship with my local machinst and I am a full time Auto Technician.

I am planning on a 383 engine with this kit,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...Q5fAccessories
1. I would want to know whose rods are used.
2. In my opinion, the pistons have insufficient flat area on the crown to generate a good squish. Also, nowhere can I find the compression height of the pistons. If they are 1.425", then they are the correct piston compression height, but they still lack enough flat area for me to use them.
3. In a 383 with 64cc heads and 12cc pistons, static compression ratio will be on the order of 10.3:1, too high in my opinion for a daily driver. You'll have to use quite a bit of cam, which will require quite a bit of converter and quite a bit of gear. I'd want to use 18cc pistons to bring the SCR down to around 9.7:1 so I could use a shorter cam and less converter. Actually, I'd rather bring the SCR down to less than 9.5 for a daily driver, but the piston choice gets a little thin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
Yeah, it's a Professional Products Crosswind Vortec, part number 52028. Nothing wrong with it at all. Should work great on a daily driver motor. Pay attention to this blurb....
"These Professional Products CrossWind Vortec manifolds are intended for 1995 and earlier blocks using the 1996 and later Vortec (Gen 1+) cylinder heads or the Edelbrock E-Tec heads. They can also be used on 1996 and later Vortec engines, but require running a short length of heater hose from a pipe tapped hole in the front of the manifold to the 5/8 in. hose nipple on the passenger's side of the water pump. The 1996 and later Vortec blocks do not have a water bypass in the block, and this minor modification takes care of that problem."

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
I need help with a CAM selection, and Carb Selection
Need to nail down the static compression ratio before you begin to choose a cam. I don't believe the Crosswind intake is made to mount a Quadrajet, square bore carb only I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
These will be my springs for the Heads to handle extra lift.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VORTE...item483d355b2a
You'll want the installed seat pressure, spring rate, the over-the-nose pressure and coil bind limit to be compatible with the camshaft you will use, so have those figures on hand before you begin looking for a cam. Pay attention to the holes in the head where the pushrods come up through when you assemble the motor. With more lift than stock, you may have some interference. I assume you will retain the rail rockers. Also, on assembly, pay attention to the outside edges of the rail rockers and make sure that they are not touching the retainers as you roll the motor through a complete 720 degree cycle. You want the rockers to engage the valve stem tip, not the retainer. Depending on the spring rate, you may want to pin the studs with a Mr Gasket kit to prevent pulling them out of the heads....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-806G/

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
Will the stock 1.5 / 1.94 valves be sufficient or should I go to 2.02 1.60's?
That's up to you. With the power level you're looking for, I think you can do it with more or less stocker L31 heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
I am looking for an affordable setup that will error on the side of torque and great streetability I need it to handle 93 octane in VA
Move the static compression down to 9.7:1 or less with a piston change from the kit piston to a piston with more dish and cut the block decks for 0.035" to 0.045" squish. Here is the type of piston I would be looking to use....18cc dish and a D-Cup for generating a good strong squish....see the large flat area on the left side of the photo?....That mates up with the underside of the head to generate squish, which should allow you to run a lesser grade of fuel without detonation....
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/kb_car/p...etails&P_id=92

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjkonyndyk
Remember I have a freshly built set of Vortecs on the motor currently and a set of 1 5/16 headers as well.
A 383 will want 1 3/4" long tube headers. They will show more hp and torque than 1 5/8" headers.

Last edited by techinspector1; 11-14-2010 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:53 PM
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a good reliable engine takes good reliable parts, I am not bashing Skip White I have bought a few things from him and I can say he is good with his warranties which I don't care to ever find that out about a store. I would be very leary about buying that kit, that is a very low price for a kit with forged pistons and everything else it comes with it is very low priced. Look at this kit from summit that is comparable to what you are looking at http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-41755BIE/ I don't know how he is selling it for that low of a cost unless he is selling blemished items or the pistons are not forged, I don't think you need forged pistons just a good set of Hypereutectic aluminums will do just fine. Maybe check out something like this this kit has pistons with a d shaped cup that will help out with your quench area http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-91100/ I wouldn't spend the money on a balance kit, I would buy everything and then take it to you machine shop to have it balanced, this is the correct way to have it done.

As far as the intake I would stick with an intake from a name brand manufacturer, I would go with something like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7116/ I have heard complaints about knock off intakes not sealing correctly and having intake leaks, maybe not right away but not very far down the road. I have also heard of bolt holes not lining up. Spend the extra few bucks and purchase a name brand intake, edelbrock seems to be the leader of intakes.

Same thing with the valve springs, you could probably get a more quality set of springs more a few more doll hairs.

The very first purchase I would recommend to you before buying any parts is this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SAD-SA57/

There is other people on this site that can give you a lot better info than I can, hopefully tech, cobalt, and bogie, and others will help you out

Last edited by crussell85; 11-14-2010 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:06 PM
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Just playin' around on the DynoSim and came up with what looks like a real grunt motor. The torque curve is nearly flat from 2000 to 5500.
383 Small Block Chevy, zero decked to the pistons
L31 heads installed with 0.040" gasket
Crosswind intake mounting square bore 750 carb of your choice
18cc D-cup pistons, 9.7:1 SCR
Custom hydraulic roller cam. 0.500"/0.500", intake opens 4 degrees BTDC, intake closes 40 degrees ABDC, exhaust opens 41 degrees BBDC, exhaust closes 7 degrees ATDC. 224/228 duration @0.050" tappet lift, intake centerline 108, exhaust centerline 107, lobe separation angle 107.5.
1 3/4" long tube headers

RPM HP TQ
2000 157 413
2500 199 418
3000 251 439
3500 306 459
4000 355 465
4500 392 458
5000 424 447
5500 430 409
6000 401 351

Last edited by techinspector1; 11-14-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:10 PM
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Honestly, you don't need a 383 to make 400hp. A well built and tuned 355 will get there pretty easily and for a lot less $$$$.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:54 PM
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Thanks I like what I see,

I forgot to ask about screw in studs, I am accomplished enough to drill and tap for screwins, but pins sure are cheap.... LOL

BTW
I am an automotive technician by trade, but again the last time I ventured into building an SBC I was 17 and that was 10 yrs ago. Since then its been a SOHC stroked Ford, and a 4.6 SOHC and a couple imports *gasp*

I am looking into the squish and a lower comp. piston. I was afraid that my calculations were also showing 10.4:1 the heads were decked some to make up for the 58CC 305 heads that came off. (due to a bad gasket and being to quick doll about bills for a fairly clean car never take a sellers word check casting #s)

Also with a 500 cam I am seeing better feelings on safety for piston to valve in case something starts to go horribly wrong and better street characteristics.

In regards to the Forged, Forged kit, I really don't need it, its wasted money when I can spend money in other areas 400 HP is a low target and a safe target.

On building a 350.
350 - I want a stump pulling Low R motor, A rebuild for a 1 pc crank engine is 600 and change with cheap crank and rods whereas a 383 kit is only a little more and the torque gain is much superior.

Again this is a street car, that needs to be able to move from light to light and be comfortable on the highway relatively speaking.

I installed 2 built 4.6 ford motors about 4 yrs ago (for customers) 1 was a standard stage 1 cam 10:1 motor with a 5.1 Stroker kit, the other was a 10.8:1 stage 2 head, stage 3 cam 4.6 disp. both had the same exhaust and the same and same bolt ons. The stroker was a billion times better on the street quicker out of the hole and had the smoke the tires feel, despite being the weaker HP and lower dollar parts, and the stroker is still running the stage 3 motor blew up twice under warranty for reasons only Coast High Performance Knows.


thanks guys and I have a how to 350 book in Michigan where I grew up I'll grab it when I visit the parents over christmas.

Also would you pay to have a machine shop short block it? or should I man up and do it myself?
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:58 PM
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Also does anyone know of a place to get a good kit? Summit and jegs are great but they are $$$ over internet sites usually. This is part of the help I need. Thanks.


Oh and yeah I am a little nervous about buying springs from a guy online but I must say that a few years back Ray Krebil was telling me that the cast stuff that Scat and Eagle were getting were coming from the same place and that it was the same stuff a lot Cheap aftermarkets were selling the forged stuff was a different story.


And the intake i have on the 305 accepts a Q-jet no problem I might have had the wrong link I'll check my history.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:05 PM
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Crussel the Summit kit you showed me is a forged crank for 1595 the same from Skip white is 1200, and in bulk it makes a little sense IMO.

And I will get this setup checked for balance on a Sunnen at Kowalsky's Machine or Sonny's in Rustburg VA or Lynchburg Va.

I'm going to ask Skip about rods and -18CC D shaped pistons. I will let you guys know thanks.

i am a little more concerned about this guy

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy...item3ca26e6af3
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:24 PM
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I have to say if you buy the kit from Skip White, run through it with a fine tooth comb. Im not saying their bad, I have just bought some real junk from him in the past.

I built my 383 with a block from a 94 k1500, not sure of casting numbers right now, but it was a 2 bolt 1 piece seal and I didn't have to clearance the block for the rotating assembly, I purchased the same kit that you are looking at from my local auto parts with the scat rods with the 12 point bolts.

Where at in Michigan?
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:28 PM
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grew up in Greenville Mi, family in Grand rapids (Ronda Tire its owned by my uncles now)

Thanks for the heads up, I plan to call over to skip white I was leery of the price as I couldn't find anything close with all the "guarantees"

Now I also should say I have a good SBC crank and I could go with the 355 but by the time I turn it and balance it I am in the Skip White Price hence my leaning on the 383.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:06 PM
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I wouldn't pay them to short block it, unless they will do it for very cheap and you know the shop is reputable. I think the short block is where all the enjoyment of the build is at. Just make sure you hang the pistons on the rods correctly if you get bushed rods, and that your ring alignment is correct.

I like this style of compressor for installing rings http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-904030/ it is the way to go for beginners, the adjustable can be a pita.

As you install the rotating assembly every time you install a piston turn the engine over with a torque wrench set to 40-45ft lbs if you go over that much there is something wrong. I just stack a bunch of flat warshers (i love when people say that, or warsh, hehe) on the balancer bolt and thread it in the crank snout to turn the engine over with the torque wrench, if you don't like the sounds of that here is this tool, i'm not sure of the socket size it would take but it is probably a pretty big socket. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-901064/
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:47 PM
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Send Mike Lewis at Lewis Racing an email for a quote on a rotating assembly balanced in house by him: lewis1@willitsonline.com

He uses Scat,Probe,SRP,etc. Does excellent work,has a great reputation and his service cant be beat.

I have used a 383 kit from him as well as a 496 BBC kit....tell him Lonnie from Louisiana sent ya.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:28 PM
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actually........When I purchased my 383 rotating assembly my machine shop sent it off to, I believe the shop is called Banks Performance or something like that, they are out of Grand Rapids, MI. Maybe you would want to give them a jingle and see if they can help you out. I had my rotating assembly balanced there for 150 bucks almost 3 years ago. They stamped my crank with the balance file number or whatever it is (that way if you need a piston or rod or something like that they can weight match it). I am not sure the name of it I would have to look at my paperwork when I get home to let you know for sure.

Maybe just check with your local machine shop and see what he can do for a total price for you, rotating assembly, machine work, gaskets, bearing, oil pump, and if you want him to assemble the lower end, you may not be able to beat the price if you give him the entire parts list for the project. He may even have stuff sitting on the shelf that he is wanting to move from having it to long or has ordered it for someone and they burnt him on it.

Last edited by crussell85; 11-14-2010 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:40 PM
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell85
I would be very leary about buying that kit, that is a very low price for a kit with forged pistons and everything else it comes with it is very low priced.

I don't know how he is selling it for that low of a cost unless he is selling blemished items or the pistons are not forged,
That EBay price is lower than his own web site price, its all a matter of marketing, they are good folks to deal with, the price is not refelctive of the quality in this case imo
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:16 PM
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I agree they are good folks to deal with, I know their warranties are good, but I am not happy about it.

I bought a water pump from him once,
1st pump: didn't pump water at all, sent me a new pump, no q's asked

2nd pump: flange came off with engine running and stuck the fan is my radiator, again sent out a new pump, no questions asked. Wouldn't replace radiator, but sent me $150 doll hairs worth of free merchandise of my choice

3rd pump: has been sitting on the shelf for over a year now, never will put it on, just went back to a stock pump from auto value for 25 bucks and pumps better than the aluminum high volume pump I tried to buy.

I am very happy with White Performance's customer service, I am just saying I would look the stuff over with a fine tooth comb before I threw it in a two thousand doll hair engine
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