Engine build thoughts??? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2009, 08:57 PM
8843astro's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Miami, Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 112
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Engine build thoughts???

I have an 94 Isuzu and was planning on installing this engine...

350 from a Chevy G-20 van. Too late for the question but wanted to get your opinion. Got the short block built before asking this forum.

Machine shop put this setup together...

Bored .30

Pistons: Power Seal H345NP

Rings: Hastings 139

Bearing: Clevite CB-663 P-10

Oil pump: Melling M-55

Timing chain: Cloyes C-3023K

Lifters: Power Seal HT-817

Cam: Clevite 229-1713 (specs from the box)
duration @ .050 int .223 - exh .223
advertised duration int .290 - exh .290
lope spread 114
lash hydraulic
valve lift int .447 - exh .447
cam lift int .298 - exh .298

Gasket set: Felpro KS-2666 260-1269

.................................................. ....................................

These are the parts I still have to get...

Vortec heads: 12558060 from Summit

Headman headers: 68600

Carb: Edelbrock or Holley 600 - 650
Which carb would you recommend?

Would also like to add some nitrous, maybe 100 shot.

The truck will only be driven occasionally, just looking for something to play around with my son..

Any input, thoughts and suggestions would be great...

Thanks...

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2009, 09:14 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,390
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
That is a LAZY cam, it won't perform the best by a long shot- but it should last forever with good oil. I'd shop for a better am but the rest looks decent. Check your quench distance as many people report those pistons use a shorter compression height than they list as.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2009, 10:31 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 9,646
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 42
Thanked 545 Times in 494 Posts
Cam looks to me like a copy (or close to it) of the 350 horse 327 cam, not the best in todays HP world, but not junk, just old school and reliable. I'd run 1.6 rockers on it to boost the lift to .477"(Assuming the Summit Vortecs will allow this?)

I'm a Holley fan, so no Edelbroke carbs for me, a 650 DP would be perfect IMO.
Check your deck height and run the thinnest gasket you can get away with to help keep the compression up, if block wasn't decked then it will be the .015-.020" shim gasket.
Good fuel pump, especially with nitrous.

How good is the Isuzu rear axle strength wise? What gear?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 12:39 AM
curtis73's Avatar
Hates: Liver. Loves: Diesel
 
Last wiki edit: How to find cheap parts
Last journal entry: Found an LQ9 today
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carlisle, PA
Age: 41
Posts: 5,229
Wiki Edits: 16

Thanks: 13
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
I like the duration on the cam, but might add a bit more to the exhaust duration for some very noticable gains. I would also ditch that 114 LSA for a 110 LSA. Wide LSAs have their place, but not in light vehicles where performance is concerned.

Didn't look up the pistons, but most dished pistons will give 8-8.5 compression, most flat tops will give in the neighborhood of 9.5, and most of the common domes will return 10.5-ish. 9.5 is great for this range of cam, and you won't be killing some of the benefits of the vortecs with domes. Plus, domed pistons need to match the chamber shape. Old-school domes won't play well with vortec's heart-shaped chambers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:46 AM
8843astro's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Miami, Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 112
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
At the moment it has 4.10 gears. Not sure if it will hold up to the power, going to have to research it some more.

The short block was built over a year ago and now is when we have to time to complete it. I was thinking of taking out the cam and replacing it with something more up to date. And it was decked.

As for the quench, tell you the truth, I don't know how to figure that out. Could someone give me a quick run down on how to do that? Another thing I have to lookup...

I'm gonna have to take some time one day and get all the specs. Since it has been for over a year, do you think it'll be a problem to just take everything apart? Not sure if it's worth it..

Will also have to looking into how much lift the heads could handle... Don't want to over do it...

I know it based on opinion but which cam would you guys recommend? Not sure if this would help but planning on using a th400 transmission..

Thanks for your replies...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:09 AM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 9,646
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 42
Thanked 545 Times in 494 Posts
Quench clearance starts with measuring the deck height. TDC a piston and then measure from the block deck surface down to the piston to find out how close the piston comes to the top of the block, then add the thickness of the head gasket. You are shooting for an ideal quench clearance of about .040", and this figure is including the thickness of the gasket. I feel that once it gets to about .055" it is getting too big to give any benefit.

Example: You measure and get a figure of .020" that the piston is below the deck of the block. This means you need a .020" thick head gasket to be ideal. Getting the quench tight like this helps to reduce octane sensitivity and improve combustion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:31 AM
SmokeShow01's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary Alberta
Age: 48
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quench Clearance Eh!!?? hmmmmmm...interesting....good info.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:15 AM
8843astro's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Miami, Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 112
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the info... I thought it was more complicated than that..

Does the gasket compress/crush a little when tighten? (hope I'm explaining it correctly) Not sure if I would have to take the amount into consideration?

I'll have to take those measurements and see what I end up with.. Will let you know.

Also your thoughts on cam? I'm looking for something reliable but also perform well. Not going to be a daily driver, just used mainly on weekends. Fuel economy isn't too important....at least at the moment..

Thanks again to everyone...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:20 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,390
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
Just used the advertised gasket thickness- in your case you'll probably need the thinnest ones you can come by, I'm guessing those pistons are pretty far down the bore at TDC, depending on how much you had decked.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:23 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8843astro
Does the gasket compress/crush a little when tighten?
Yes, but not much. In most cases, not more than 0.003".

Most all gasket makers give a "compressed" thickness figure that can be reliably used to figure piston to head distance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 86
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Your engine

I disagree with the other post about your cam being lazy.I build engines for a living now and found out along time ago that for a street engine a little can mean alot.When you go farther than 290 on the duration on a street engine the cly bleed off to much and want pump up as high.With the shorter dur you get more torq where you will need it on the street.A little less dur maybe in the 280 range would have been even better.The lift is right where you want it.A single pattern cam will get you more bang for the buck on a street engine.From the H in the piston part number sound like HYP.cast pistons.I suggest no nitrous at all but if you insist a 50 shot is all those pistons will take.I suggest edelbrock performer heads and 350's like 750cfm carbs.The smaller carbs will work but you will realize more of what the motor has with a 750cfm.Edelbrock 750cfm with a electric choke is a no hassle carb for the street.If those are flat tops and you are running zero deck with a .035 head gasket with good headers you should be in the 400 hp range.Piston deck height is a common over looked machine process that can make or break your effort.I have seen many 350 with as much as .030 to .050 deck height.This kills any power gain you are going after.If you have not put the engine together yet take one rod.one piston assembly dont use the rings.Take masking tape and go around the piston with one layer putting the tape where the rings go.This takes up for the rings when you mock a engine up to check clearences.Now check your deck height useing you micrometer calipers.If the pistons below the deck put all eight pistons in as I said and check and write down all the heights.Average them and have that much shaved off the block.Compression is everything specially on a street engine.Horse shoes and handgrenaids you want it as close to 10 to1 or 10.5 to 1 as you can get it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:42 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,390
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1pistol
I disagree with the other post about your cam being lazy.I build engines for a living now and found out along time ago that for a street engine a little can mean alot.When you go farther than 290 on the duration on a street engine the cly bleed off to much and want pump up as high.With the shorter dur you get more torq where you will need it on the street.A little less dur maybe in the 280 range would have been even better.The lift is right where you want it.A single pattern cam will get you more bang for the buck on a street engine.From the H in the piston part number sound like HYP.cast pistons.I suggest no nitrous at all but if you insist a 50 shot is all those pistons will take.I suggest edelbrock performer heads and 350's like 750cfm carbs.The smaller carbs will work but you will realize more of what the motor has with a 750cfm.Edelbrock 750cfm with a electric choke is a no hassle carb for the street.If those are flat tops and you are running zero deck with a .035 head gasket with good headers you should be in the 400 hp range.Piston deck height is a common over looked machine process that can make or break your effort.I have seen many 350 with as much as .030 to .050 deck height.This kills any power gain you are going after.If you have not put the engine together yet take one rod.one piston assembly dont use the rings.Take masking tape and go around the piston with one layer putting the tape where the rings go.This takes up for the rings when you mock a engine up to check clearences.Now check your deck height useing you micrometer calipers.If the pistons below the deck put all eight pistons in as I said and check and write down all the heights.Average them and have that much shaved off the block.Compression is everything specially on a street engine.Horse shoes and handgrenaids you want it as close to 10 to1 or 10.5 to 1 as you can get it.

A lazy cam has nothing to do with duration, it describes lobe intensity.

Sounds like he wants a budget build which means overpriced Edelbrock heads are out.

10.5:1 compression with that cam will be rattling like a can of marbles. He's probably sitting right around 10:1 with Vortecs though which is a hair high but doable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 09:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 86
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
A lazy cam has nothing to do with duration, it describes lobe intensity.

Sounds like he wants a budget build which means overpriced Edelbrock heads are out.

10.5:1 compression with that cam will be rattling like a can of marbles. He's probably sitting right around 10:1 with Vortecs though which is a hair high but doable.
Cam intensity is determined by lift and duration.A lazy cam for racing is one thing.A lazy cam for the street is another.If it is run on the street at all then he is in the ball park.He could try 1.6 but as I said on the street a little is alot.And as far as pinging at 10 to 1 or 10.5 to 1.Thats the fuel your using.Pump gas premium should be no promblem.My 72 chevy 1/2 ton with a 10.5 to 1 396 and a 11-678-5 comp cam with premium fuel does not rattle at all.Depends on if you know how to tune or not.You can pick up edelbrock heads on ebay cheap.Just have to look.Terry rosebush motorsports store on ebay has a nice set of blems 215 Iron Eagles for 389.00 right now.You can find good heads for cheap if you just take the time to look.These heads are bare but for 389.00 they are worth the money.If I did not have a set of iron eagles I would snag them.How ever I see edelbrocks on ebay and racingjunk.com all the time foe afforable price.Dont give up so easy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 09:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 86
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How much lift

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8843astro
At the moment it has 4.10 gears. Not sure if it will hold up to the power, going to have to research it some more.

The short block was built over a year ago and now is when we have to time to complete it. I was thinking of taking out the cam and replacing it with something more up to date. And it was decked.

As for the quench, tell you the truth, I don't know how to figure that out. Could someone give me a quick run down on how to do that? Another thing I have to lookup...

I'm gonna have to take some time one day and get all the specs. Since it has been for over a year, do you think it'll be a problem to just take everything apart? Not sure if it's worth it..

Will also have to looking into how much lift the heads could handle... Don't want to over do it...

I know it based on opinion but which cam would you guys recommend? Not sure if this would help but planning on using a th400 transmission..

Thanks for your replies...
I always like to buy my heads bare.Then I always put longer valves in.As far as your engine.If the bottom end is already together It is dicey on going to a larger cam.You have to check clerance to see if pistons need to be notched.0.500 or a little over is about it with out getting into trouble with piston to valve clearence
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 10:44 PM
8843astro's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Miami, Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 112
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Think I'm better off just keeping the same cam???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My engine Build Ozz1967 Engine 14 11-20-2013 08:05 AM
Cadillac engine build bluesman423 Engine 6 09-05-2008 06:18 PM
engine build - 451 stroker Highway Engine 8 07-17-2008 11:39 AM
Build me an engine! (on paper) :p mgray10 Engine 5 02-29-2004 05:02 PM
anyone can build me an engine? mitmaks General Rodding Tech 3 09-08-2003 03:06 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.