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Old 09-27-2005, 09:25 PM
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engine eats cam lobes

Hi I just rebuilt my sbc 350 engine I put the vortec heads on it and went with a mild cam comp cam 212 intake and exhaust and 440 lift on intake and exhaust. The problem is that it took out number 7 intake lobe less than a hundred miles. We put a new cam and lifter in it and broke the cam in and drove for 20 min. and it was acting funny. we took it apart and found out that number 7 exhaust lobe was gone. I have the mechine shop helping me with it. When we put the new cam in we put all new 16 lifters in also and we put alot of lub on done everything by the book. We broke the cam in at 2000 grand for 20 min. I had the head rocker arm studs pin. I have good oil pressure and good amout of oil coming up the push rods. Would the problem be my block?

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Old 09-27-2005, 09:50 PM
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The first thing to check is valvetrain geometry and clearance. Check for pushrod interference, coil bind and rocker interference.
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:50 PM
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The lifter isnt getting hung up in the lifter bore is it? how did you set the valves, they arent too tight are they? check the spring rate and travel. Also, your valve might be getting stuck in the guide or getting hung up somewhere.
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Old 09-28-2005, 06:11 AM
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Cam lobe failure is not a issue just with your motor, it's industry wide.

As I've been told.....About 2-3 years ago the EPA forced the oil companies to remove the zinc from motor oil. The zinc is what protected our cams from disintegration during break-in and start-up. Everyone in the Industry was having cam failures even the General was having problems with their Crate Motors.

To cure the problem GM came out with a product called E.O.S. Engine Oil Supplement, available from any GM Parts counter and I believe is shipped with every crate engine. It's a 16 oz bottle of some magic potion and from our experience virtually eliminates the dreaded "Flat Cam" syndrome.

We are tightly connected to Racer Brown Cams and we absolutely insist that every engine that gets one of our cams get's the GM EOS, we won't sell a cam without a bottle of this potion included....period.

I have no idea of how they brew the stuff and I understand that our beloved Ma Mopar also has a variation of this elixir as well as Ford, we'll stick to the GM stuff it's proven to us that it works.

So let's look a little deeper at the industry....all the big three now use virtually nothing but roller cams in all their engines so the zinc is not an issue...did they anticipate this problem and was it part of their decision process went they went away from flat tappet cams? I don't know but it sounds suspicious to me.

Everyone wants more power from less cam and lower BTU outputs of "Premium Fuel"...now there's an oxymoron.....premium my *****...so cam grinders grind higher ramp speeds to build more cylinder pressure which loads the mating surfaces of the cam and lifter.

About 3 years ago Johnson lifters were shut down due to more EPA concerns and it took until this year for TopLine to purchase the company, clean up the mess and get the plant back on track. So guess where most of your lifters were coming from.....they came with a fortune cookie if that's any clue. The metallurgy of these foreign and even the cheap domestic replacements are no way even close to the quality of a Johnson lifter.

So it was the stack principal.....loss of good lifters, lack of zinc in the oils and more aggressive ramp speeds on the cams. Some or al of these issues probably contributed to the demise of your cam. I doubt you did anything wrong your just a casualty of .."Progress?"

The motor must be dis-assembled and tanked before you can install a new cam, there is no shortcuts. This time use a bottle of EOS and if you can find them, a set of Johnson lifters and your risk of loosing another cam will be minimized.
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Old 09-28-2005, 09:34 AM
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You may want to use wimpy valve springs for the break in also.
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Old 09-28-2005, 11:34 AM
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The heads have the z28 valve springs on them. There are 5 lifter on the driver side that has a weired ware pattern. The block is a 77 two bolt main. Would that block have had a weired cam grinding.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:02 PM
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cam

read cuda66273's post close...

to add just a few thing to go along with it..

Make sure (as he stated) you take the engine completly apart and clean every nook and cranny. That swarf from the cam lobe will make it into every place the oil flows. The filter will not help and i have even had it happen with blocked bypasses so all the oil must go through the filter and it still does not help.... You must clean the engine!!!!

Check the top of the guides to see if the retainers are stacking on top of the seals. Make sure when it's apart you check the lifter bore to see that all the lifters rotate free.... Add the EOS, make sure it starts on the first crank or 2 and run at 2000 rpm changing the rpm ever now and then to help re-direct the oil... Do not use synthetic oil during break-in or the first 5000 miles or so... I prefer straight 30 w for break in

Keith
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Old 09-28-2005, 03:15 PM
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Interesting to note when you look at a NOA (new oil analysis) from Blackstone, or other lab most all oil contains somewhere in the range of 100 to 2000 PPM of Zinc. I'm not disputing the fact that zinc is important as a high pressure lube as it is, that's what EOS is, all zinc. Over 6000 PPM worth and we use it as well on break in. EOS also contains a lot of detergents/ dispersants, Na, Mg, and Ca sulfonates. Also antioxidants, corrosion inhibitors, and polyolefin ester suspended in a mineral base oil. Not a lot of moly though which is what the Valvoline type EOS has in it. Although the Valvoline additive does not have as much zinc.

Actually even rollers need zinc so it's not an issue of one design needing it more than the other.


What no one has ever told me though is back when I was a teenager and there were no cats on vehicles how much zinc was really in the oil back then?

My point is, on the issue of zinc, I think it's not one of the major, or even minor causes of lifter failures over the past few years. At least based on the analysis information available.
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Old 10-06-2005, 09:54 PM
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The shop took the engine apart and measure the lifter registers with two other block and they found the specs. The block measured out perfect. So we are going with a different Cam. I hope we are just getting a bad batch of cams. Everything look good.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:00 AM
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Measure the lifter bores and mate the lifters to the correct size bore. With a stack up tolerance of .005, you might be getting unlucky and binding a lifter in the bore. This assumes no lift clearance or cam tunnel problems. Use a good quality lifter. Cheap ones are off even more.
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Old 10-07-2005, 04:29 PM
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Readen All The Posts...

10-7-05

You Are Not Getting Oil Where It Susposed To Go To!

My 68 Corvette 427 -35 Years Old 70,000 Original Miles--It Finally Blew Engine,i.e. Factory Cheap Rings Cracked On Pistons! Believe You Me: I Drove My New 68 Corvette 160mph Ohio Turnpike 1969 (Got The Ticket) Many Times 160mph On CA 114 Freeways--I Do Not Baby My Vette Nor Abuse It--As Little As I Drive It--It Is My Everyday Street Car!

Engine Tear Down June 2002 (Bad Luck Year) Removing Factory L-88 Duntov Hi Lift Cam Virtually Like New--Why!?

Every (Olds-Dodge-Chevy) Corvette's Of 7 --I Owned 3 New- 5 Used Drove Home--I Changed Multi- Viscosity Oil To H D Straight Weights 30 or 40Wt Quaker State Or Pennzoil-WHY @ ***10,000rpms You Are Runnen Wall to Wall Pistons,i.e. Oil Virtually Leaves Cylinder Walls!

IN 1958: --1955 Chevy-- Had So-Called Friend (Mommas Boy) Blew Over $10,000 New Engine Over Bore 327 -1/2 Way Down Ohio Drag Strip-- ***Pistons Literally Went Thru Clyinder Walls--Usen Esso Multi Viscosity Oil!

Todays Oils Have Tons Of Additives Put In Them--Cleaners,Inhibitors, Junk!

Visit: http://MeanMother.Com Click On: Mean Machine

Then: Project Corvette Update--- View New TOTALLY TRICKED OUT OVERBORE ENGINE--It Took Past 3 + Years Get It To Run Right, i.e. 1 Defective Oil Pump, 3 Defective MSD Coils, 1 MSD T D Distributor, 1 Holley Electric F Pump, 3 Holley Carburetors + Misc--Every (Cheap Junk) Thing Now Built Tawain or Mexico--Now 2005 It's Octane 82, 83 Cheap $3.00 Gallon Gasoline!

I WERE YOU: Start All Over,i.e Tear Engine Down COMPLETELY--BOIL OUT BLOCK,BOIL OUT CYLINDER HEADS-Clean Everything Spotless!CHECK EVERY EACH N EVERY PART FOR WEAR-CRACKS-FLAWS...

BUY: Heavy Duty Oil Pump--"Take New Pump Apart Look For Cracked Gears"--Just Because You Have High Oil Pressure Does Not Mean Oil Is Flowing To Where It Is Susposed To Go To!

Hope I Opened Your Eyes Maybe Even Enlightened Your Soul And Your Bank Account...

Mean Mother USA
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:54 PM
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We put the motor in friday and broke it in. I put 40 miles on it and the oil looks good and the engine sound great. We put a different type of comp cam in and comp lifters with a bottle of comps breaking lube. I think that this cam is going to last because the other one would be bad by now.
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Old 10-08-2005, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
About 3 years ago Johnson lifters were shut down due to more EPA concerns and it took until this year for TopLine to purchase the company, clean up the mess and get the plant back on track. So guess where most of your lifters were coming from.....they came with a fortune cookie if that's any clue.
I wiped out a Crane cam and was told the exact same thing from the engine machinist. He told me their failure rate went up 30%. When I installed my lifters they were tight but I didn't do anything about it. I wiped out #4 and # 8 exhaust. The cylinders detonated and drove #3 pushrod through the rocker. The crap went through the pump and turned # 3 and 4 rod bearings. Lost the entire engine. I put it back together with a roller cam. The lifters slid right into the bores.
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Old 10-08-2005, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bracketeer
When I installed my lifters they were tight but I didn't do anything about it.

I hope we all learn from the mistakes of others, we won't live long enough to make them all by ourselves.
thanks
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