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Old 06-10-2008, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbandit
If I bump the base timing won't that raise my total timing too high, like if I raise it to 12 deg. my total would then raise to 40 degree?
Are you running mechanical advance only, no vacuum? You would have to limit the mechanical with the advance plate to keep your 34* total. If you had vacuum advance you could use an adjustable type canister.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 12:57 AM
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40 degrees would be no problem for cruising with vacuum advance, under load, it would drop back to initial plus centrifical (true total advance).

Last edited by WDCreech; 06-10-2008 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:57 AM
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Yes, if you increase the base timing, the total will also go up the same amount. However, 40 isn't that high. I would think 36 to 38 will be ideal with your setup. Try increasing the base to 12 and let the total will go to 40. Then turn your timing retard to 3 degrees per pound of boost, which will put it back to 25 degrees at full boost. You will get better throttle response and better fuel mileage. If this works better for you, you really need to get your distributor recurved (reduce mechanical advance) or get a distributor that has adjustable mechanical advance (mallory, msd, or crane)

I have found that 20 initial will make the idle much sharper and cleaner smelling. Then set the distributor mechanical advance to 8 or 9 degrees which will be 16 to 18 crank degrees (2:1 ratio). This will make a total advance of 20 + 18 = 38. I would also use an adjustable vacuum advance to add another 10 to 12 degrees during lite load driving (high vacuum), and set the boost retard to 3 degrees per pound of boost. With more timing, I bet you get 2 or 3 more mpg on the highway and the idle smells clean. Plus 20 degrees at idle will add 2 or 3 inches of hg. You could even try running the vacuum advance on the manifold source so your engine will idle with 30 degrees of timing. This allows the engine to idle on a very lean mixture and with the throttle blades almost closed which rises idle vacuum. don't worry about the vacuum advance, it will shut down before the boost comes on.

After you add more timing at idle, you need to lower the idle speed and readjust the idle mixture screws for highest vacuum.

With only 6 degrees of initial timing, I can't believe you are not complaining about glowing headers, smelly exhaust, bad throttle response, and poor mpg.

Or, you could try leaving the mechanical timing alone, and just plug the vacuum advance into the manifold vacuum source. The stock vacuum advance canister should increase the idle timing by almost 20 degrees, which will put the idle timing at 26.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 11:09 AM
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Engine stalls in gear

Thanks 454C10, I'll try those settings this morning and let you know how it works.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:13 PM
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There have been some good suggestions made so far. Keep in mind with the Mighty Demon that the base timing should actually be closer to 18 at idle as mentioned above rather than 6 to 12. You may also want to see how much transfer slot you have showing on the front vs. the back . If you are idling off the fronts and the rears are closed try opening them and closing the fronts back down some. Try to keep both under .020 . Also how far do you have the idle-eze opened?
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:21 PM
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I don't pretend to understand supercharging and how it affects timing optimization. But it seems to me that a vaccuum advance, referenced in the intake below the carb, would work well to advance the timing while you are "out of" the throttle. Do you have such an advance? Could the diaphragm be leaking?

Pat
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:05 PM
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Something I'v heard.....dont know if theres any truth to it......



Quote:
Depending on how much vacuum is on the manifold while the motor is running.....sometimes with low boost you can use the advance as a retard.....to allow advancement while idling (vac present on manifold) then retards out when the manifold reaches boost
I think you may need ALOT more advance than you have at idle right now.

Last edited by Holder350; 06-11-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 06-13-2008, 02:52 AM
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Engine stalls in gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech @ BG
There have been some good suggestions made so far. Keep in mind with the Mighty Demon that the base timing should actually be closer to 18 at idle as mentioned above rather than 6 to 12. You may also want to see how much transfer slot you have showing on the front vs. the back . If you are idling off the fronts and the rears are closed try opening them and closing the fronts back down some. Try to keep both under .020 . Also how far do you have the idle-eze opened?
The transfer slots are open about .020 both front and rear and the idle-eze is open I think 4 1/2 turns. When I went out to re-adjust the timing as 454C10 suggested, the car wouldn't start. I have power to the distributor but no current to the plug. I guess its time for a new distributor or at least a new coil. I'm checking on my options and funds now. I'll be back at it in a couple of days.
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbandit
The transfer slots are open about .020 both front and rear and the idle-eze is open I think 4 1/2 turns. When I went out to re-adjust the timing as 454C10 suggested, the car wouldn't start. I have power to the distributor but no current to the plug. I guess its time for a new distributor or at least a new coil. I'm checking on my options and funds now. I'll be back at it in a couple of days.
Ok, just let us know once you get the ignition straightened out and the timing set if there is still an issue and we can go from there.
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Old 06-13-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbandit
It is a 68 Firebird w/69 YH428 bored 30 over, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads 87cc, Lunati Bracketmaster II 230/230 @ .50 .490 lift LSA110 degreed @ 104, Edelbrock Torquer II with a Mighty Demon Blow Thru 750, Hedman Hustler Headers and an ATI Procharger set at 5lbs.
I have checked for vacuum leaks and found none.
The tranny is a built GM 350 with a B&M 10" Hole shot 1800 stall converter. The idle is set at 1200 in neutral but can't set in drive because it won't idle.
Not enough converter stall, also, idle speed seems high even for the cam you've got.

Bogie
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:42 PM
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Engine stalls in gear.

Hey guys, sorry for the delays but freind had trouble with explorer locking in 4wd and I had to get a new ignition switch so hadn't got back to the bird until yesterday. But after the new switch got her started I set the initial timing at 14* with vacuum advance hooked to port vacuum on carb. Then I backed off the idle-eaze to 3 1/2 turns out and she now idles at about 850 in gear and 1000 in neutral. Throttle response is a little sluggish so I'll take the timing up to 18* and readjust the idle and see how that does. I've got just shy of 16 Hg at idle. I haven't really gotten on it, not more than half throttle and only a couple of three miles after warming it up. Doesn't take long on the desert. So I still have a lot of work to do, but now I've got a flying start. Thanks for all the help and advice. 454C10 you seem to have the numbers right on this setup. You guys are the greatest. I'll keep you updated until I get it perfect.
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Old 06-20-2008, 01:52 PM
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"I set the initial timing at 14* with vacuum advance hooked to port vacuum on carb."

Don't hook the vacuum advance up to set initial timing. leave it unhooked and cap off the vacuum source.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:59 PM
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Engine stalls in gear

I wanted to update everyone on my problem. I no longer have a problem. I took 454C10's advice and set initial timing at 18* (I can't set it to 20* because it is beyond my pointers range and I don't want to guess) and total is now at 38* all in at 3000rpm. Vacuum advance is hooked to ported and is locked out at 10*. I didn't need to adjust the idle slots but did back off on idleze to 3 1/2 turns out. The idle is at 1000 in neutral with 17 hg and around 750 in gear. I can't say for sure because now my tach took the big daddy dump. But she runs like a raped ape again. Thanks for all your advice and suggestions. A special thanks to you 454C10. And I have another question. Is 200-210* too high of a running temperature for this set up?
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