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engine suggestions for 49 Olds?

7K views 60 replies 25 participants last post by  grouch 
#1 ·
I'm open to suggestions ranging from sedate to wild to weird. It's not going to be a daily driver. It will be something to drive occasionally just for fun. Haven't even pulled the body yet. There are enough things eating into my garage time that I don't want to find myself in a position of being ready for an engine but not having one. I'm pretty ignorant about what's available.

The "Big Six" (257 ci) that came out of it might be nice, but I have no clue where I'd get parts when it breaks, nor how to boost the power.

An Olds 455 sounds right for it, especially if I could find one of the 365 - 400 hp ones. Were there many of these made? Are they rare and pricey?

I have an old 350 available, but not really interested in dropping that in.

Anybody got a Kenworth rotting away that they want to donate the engine from? Might make it a bit nose-heavy, but it would be an interesting Oldsmobile. :)

I still haven't decided whether I want to stir the gears myself or just put it in 'D'.
 
#27 ·
grouch said:
What parts are you looking at to determine that? Are there things to look at besides the casting numbers to distinguish between the various GM divisions, from when each made their own engines?
I was looking at the location of the alternator
After I think 69, they were mounted on the passenger side of the engine.
The water pump is a short shaft pump.
This is another part that was changed in the same year, to a long pump.

Bryan

ps--A caddy engine will require crankshaft machining for a pilot bushing if you choose a manual tranny
 
#28 ·
poncho62 said:
Thats a Chevy motor....................if mid 60s, either a 283 or a 327
If this engine is stock---will be a 69 or newer

Chevys had the oil fill pipe going into the front of the intake manifold, from 55 to about 68

I only guessed pre 70 on the alt. location and short pump---both of which could be changed easily enough to suit the application--ie. 64 chev. I would think the wiring harness length and pully alignment would have been an issue with the probable 283 original equipment

Bryan
 
#29 ·
Mustangsaly said:
look in the 4 sale section of www.realoldspower.com & get a 455 Olds, I've heard some of the mid 70s up Olds 455 with Olds 425 heads (to raise compresion) make a power house. on the www.realoldspower.com site check into the 403 Olds a real power house too ! the Olds 403 has a biger bore than a BBC. keep it Oldsmobile.
Thanks. I saw a couple of 425s on there, too.

Bryan59EC said:
I only guessed pre 70 on the alt. location and short pump---both of which could be changed easily enough to suit the application--ie. 64 chev. I would think the wiring harness length and pully alignment would have been an issue with the probable 283 original equipment
Wiring harness? Heh. This was what I drove when I was an indestructible, young iron walker. In one of the photos posted earlier, you can see a rusty bolt half screwed into the passenger side head. I remember doing something with the alternator and bracket to match a belt I happened to have laying around.

As for wiring, check out the attached image. I won't show the electrician's wire-nut on the heavy wire, for fear of causing Doc a heart attack. Also note the sexy throttle linkage. The second image is of the 3-speed transmission out of the truck, complete with super fancy bolt shift lever. I don't think that would be appropriate for the Olds. One passenger gave this description to the others in my construction crew, "He only knows wide open and stop, there's nothing to hang on to, the windshield's busted but that don't matter because he dives to the floor every time he goes to shift and can't see anyway! Thank God it's only got 3 gears."
 

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#31 ·
Bryan59EC said:
So I guess that you are another one of those guys that have their own personal angel :D

Bryan
:) Must be. I wouldn't drive that thing near a road, today. Brakes were lousy, steering had too much play in it, new wipers wouldn't help because the first pass over that shattered area would shred them, it's a miracle the wires never tangled in that throttle, JC Whitney turn signal unit held to the steering column with hose clamps, driver's window was crazed plexiglas, dimmer switch hung from the column by its wires, you had to watch where you put your feet or they'd go all the way through. It did have highly visible brake lights, though. They were off of a 12x65 mobile home.

Maybe I could resurrect it as a rat rod and aggravate Centerline with it. Would need to find someone insane enough to drive it, though.
 
#33 ·
I'm not far from Mammoth Cave, that big hole in the ground so many tourists fall into. :)

That "car" was an old short-bed pickup. I pulled the bed off and built a flatbed from treated wood. The guys I worked with at the time said my bed wouldn't last a year. That framework is still sound, 24 years later, the oak floor is all but gone, though.

If I can find a suitable donor car for the Olds, I may try to revive that truck with the engine that's in it.
 
#35 ·
:nono: :nono: :nono: Don't you dare put that Chevy in that Olds. (Only my opinion but you asked for it!) You have a car that not to many people have ever seen! :thumbup: I know that money is tight but you will be much happier with an Olds or Caddy in the engine bay in the future. That car needs lots of torque to get it moving and the Chevy will not produce it without spending a lot of money. Like many have said (and you also) get yourself a donor car, part out what you can't use to recover some of the purchase price. You are not in a big hurry for an engine quite yet. Look around - put the word out - something will turn up at the right price.

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#36 ·
Nightfire said:
If you put a Caddy 500 into your Olds you'll be my hero. I believe one of the larger companies (was it Summit, or Edelbrock or ??) start making performance parts for them again.
Mike
I'm sure going to try to be your hero. :) I'd rather get one from a donor car than buy a remanufactured one. The reman engines seem to run about $1700 before shipping. I wouldn't know what it came from, then.

My nephew just gave me an email run-down of the history of Cadillacs and the 500 and this link: http://www.500cid.com

home brew said:
Don't you dare put that Chevy in that Olds. (Only my opinion but you asked for it!) You have a car that not to many people have ever seen! I know that money is tight but you will be much happier with an Olds or Caddy in the engine bay in the future. That car needs lots of torque to get it moving and the Chevy will not produce it without spending a lot of money. Like many have said (and you also) get yourself a donor car, part out what you can't use to recover some of the purchase price. You are not in a big hurry for an engine quite yet. Look around - put the word out - something will turn up at the right price.
You're darned right I asked for opinions and I consider myself fortunate to have received so many good ones.

I think you're right that I'd never be happy with that 350 in the Olds. It will only go in there as a last resort, if nothing shows up by the time I get ready for putting the car back together. Lots of opportunities can come up between now and then. (I'm actually sniffing around a '76 Cadillac Fleetwood in another state right now. Just have to convince my significant other that it's worth the trip and price in spite of having an engine right here on the place).

BTW, love your new avatar. Do you have that Nash out of the weeds and into a journal yet? That is a really interesting car.
 
#39 ·
Go with the 394 tri power set up and you'll be MY hero..lol. My cousin had a 50 or 51 with that setup in his, it screamed. I was about 12 at the time, still love those Olds. The Caddy would be a good second choice. Dan
 
#40 ·
OneMoreTime said:
Now if you coild find a 57 olds J-2 that would be something right out of history..that was the one with the factory tri-power..that and a built hydra-matic..(B&M Hydrostick) First really built automatic that there was..

Sam
I'll second that.... :thumbup: The 49's were available with the fore runner of this engine/trans so it should be almost a bolt in and VERY cool.
 
#41 ·
I say (just my opinion) a BBO 425 or 455 and caddy motor 2nd. but I like olds/olds & ford/ford ect. my friend just finished a ole ford T bucket but he put in a 350 chevy with a tunnel ram & 2 4s ect. its a sweet rod ! but imo needs a ford motor & tranny, it does have a ford 9". the T bucket needs something like a flathead with multi carbs or a 351c or 351w or a 428 super cobra jet.

of course he has a 56 ford p/u & 56 ford panel with a sbc & chevy running gear too. its all nice stuff.

moneys no object 4 him. I think he had 14 finished rods at the local car show. even a restored/rebuilt 49 Kenworth semi tractor. plus he has many restored john deer tractors too.

hes doing a 36ish ford p/u ratrod with a factory ford 4 banger & turbo outa some little ford car, kinda cool.


I guess its what he likes

Mustangsaly
 
#42 ·
Mustangsaly said:
the T bucket needs something like a flathead with multi carbs or a 351c or 351w or a 428 super cobra jet.
A good looking flathead in a T just looks like it belongs there! Might be all the models I built as a kid, though.

I have a fairly complete 351 in my junk pile but I have no knowledge about it beyond the displacement and that it's a Ford. If I rebuilt it and put it in that Olds, you and about half the others on here would never speak to me again. :D
 
#43 ·
...

even if you cant dig up a 500 you can get some nice power out of a mild 472 caddilac...Ive drove both in a couple of diffrent hearses ive owned and they make alot of speed parts for the the 472 and if you can find the caddilac with both the motor and trans i believe most were tubo400 trannys..
GOTHROD
 
#44 ·
gothrod87 said:
even if you cant dig up a 500 you can get some nice power out of a mild 472 caddilac...Ive drove both in a couple of diffrent hearses ive owned and they make alot of speed parts for the the 472 and if you can find the caddilac with both the motor and trans i believe most were tubo400 trannys..
GOTHROD
I'm hoping to find a donor car that I can drive home. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that a '76 Cadillac is the right donor. They downsized the next year, so it was the end of an era. The rear end of a '76 Fleetwood is 60.7 inches versus the 59 inches for the Olds. I think that little difference could be made up for with the wheels. That 500 cid engine was made to push over 5000 pounds around so it will just be loafing to shove the ~3300-3900 lb Olds. The big X-frame of the Olds should have no trouble handling the torque of the 500.
 
#45 ·
grouch said:
I'm hoping to find a donor car that I can drive home. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that a '76 Cadillac is the right donor. They downsized the next year, so it was the end of an era. The rear end of a '76 Fleetwood is 60.7 inches versus the 59 inches for the Olds. I think that little difference could be made up for with the wheels. That 500 cid engine was made to push over 5000 pounds around so it will just be loafing to shove the ~3300-3900 lb Olds. The big X-frame of the Olds should have no trouble handling the torque of the 500.
And older Cadillacs aren't that hard to find, just pick up AutoTrader!
 
#47 ·
Wish I could find a cheap old Caddy around here. There is a junkyard just a few miles from me. Just last year, the owner had everything crushed that was older than 1980. He had several acres, but scrap prices were high and demand for parts from pre-80 cars was low.

I've been checking newspapers and the weeklies like Clip-it and Autotrader. None yet. Checked eBay but those are mostly 'collectibles' with inflated prices and bids, IMO. I guess I'm just going to have to roam around the backroads and look in the weeds.
 
#49 ·
Lemme know if you have trouble finding one...

I have at least 2 yards around here that have 500-motored Cads sitting in them...

I was originally going to run a 500 in the Kustomsledd, but when the Jeep six puked in my 4x4 daily driver I put it in that, and got a 472 from a buddy for the 'sledd. It's tempting to drive it all the time with your foot in it, it plants me back in the seat just fine! :thumbup: :D

Keep in mind I just added the Caddy engine page from my website to the Wiki. There are swap tips in there that I not only found out by doing, but from countless hours of reading the MTS board.

Don't let thoughts of crank machining deter you from running a stick trans either. The small amount of drilling necessary can easily be done on an assembled engine, it's not precision work, just clearancing for depth, basically. The pilot bearing needed indexes into the large hole in the crank snout that the converter pilot originally fit into. Incidentally I have a stick bellhousing still sitting here, got it at a swap meet, think it fits a Poncho but the bell pattern is the same. :cool: Alternately, all the RWD cars had TH-400's in them, some with longer tailshafts than others.

Headers are readily available, either Sanderson blockhuggers or you could use a BBC header and add Caddy flanges to it if it fits the chassis. Edelbrock has the intake, and Bulldog Performance is now making aluminum heads for these motors. Ignition is HEI like a Chevy, so parts are available to hop that up also.

My first suggestion would be to get a boneyard/running donor motor, and tear it down to a shortblock. I did just that with both of mine. Re-gasket the pan, put in a steel timing set, both crank seals/timing cover/waterpump, the heads/intake/valve seals/valvecovers, and change out the freeze plugs and run it. Of course, normal tuneup parts also apply. These motors came with the nylon-faced aluminum cam gear and it's probably going bad, and the other source of nylon in the motor is the valve seals/retainers falling apart from age. Head gaskets are likely also going to be on the way out with an engine this old so change them. Both of my motors needed them done.

Also if the pan does'nt look like it will work, there are 3 different oilpans available... front sump on most all RWD cars, mid sump used on the smaller 425 after '77, and the Eldorado rear sump. Each pan requires a matching pickup tube, and slight relocation/fitting of the dipstick and tube will sometimes be needed, depending on the pan used...

You're looking at maybe $100-150 to regasket/paint the motor while it's apart. I'm betting your bores will be like new, and the rings/bearings will also still be serviceable. If the oil pressure is low after it warms up change out the pump, some of the housings are aluminum and wear pretty badly. You can also swap to a different pump if needed to route the filter a different direction if necessary. No need to spend extra for a heavy-duty pump, the stockers work fine as long as the clearances are good.

Lemme know if you need measurements or anything else, I'd be happy to help... :thumbup:

Doc
 
#51 ·
Yes... but why?

You'd need an adaptor to fit the BPO pattern to the Chevy pattern at the bellhousing.

And you'd want to use as late a trans as possible, the later 700R4's had stronger, upgraded internals. Remember this will be behind an engine with double the torque of the average 350, so starting with a built 700R4 is the best way to go, with stronger clutches and upgraded hard parts inside. The TV cable bellcrank and bracket will have to be worked out of course, but adequate information is readily available to modify existing carb linkage to work.

Personally I would'nt bother with the 700R4 trans. The TH-400 has a direct 1-1 ratio in Third, and it's simple to find the math for what projected engine speed you want at 65 MPH, or wherever you cruise on the speedo. Gear the car for the engine speed you want at cruise. The motor makes more than enough torque to get it going.

With the smallish tires I have on the 'sledd, it's turning around 2100 RPM at 65 MPH, with a 3-1 gearset in the 8" Ford axle. I actually have more trouble finding and keeping traction when I punch it, most times the tires go up in smoke and I have to feather it with the tail loose and it still moves out in a hurry. I also have a B&M 'strip' shift kit in the trans, and it'll break the tires loose again between gearchanges. :D :D :thumbup: :thumbup:

If you really want the best of both worlds just build a switch pitch TH-400, and gear the car high for mileage. You can then push a button to raise stall on the converter and get better ET's...

Doc
 
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