Engine swap - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2001, 06:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Red face Engine swap

I'm currently in the process of swapping engines in my 1958 Chevy Apache pickup. It has the 235 Thriftmaster engine with a 4 speed manual transmission. Unfortunately, I cannot get the engine and transmission to seperate. Everything has been unbolted, but still no seperation. The Chevy manual states somewhat that they must be removed as a unit. However, due a frame crossmember, this is not possible. Anybody out there have any solutions to my problem? The replacement engine will be a period 1958 283 engine. Is there a matchup problem here? I know about new engine mounts, but is there anything else I need to know?null

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2001, 09:43 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 2
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Did you get any replies on this problem? You don't have everything unbolted if it won't seperate. I remember that the beelhousing on those old engines were cast iron with a flywheel/inspection cover that unbolted from the bottom and would allow the clutch to come out without removing the bellhousing as is required when working with the later aluminum bellhousing. If I remember correctly, there are bolts that are accessable to the transmission from inside the bellhousing, (lower bolts as i remember). The transmission would then seperate from the bellhousing. Also, which crossmember si keeping you from removing the assembly. You should be able to remove the whole assembly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2001, 09:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Jerry S. Thanks for the reply. You're the only who has responded so far. The access pan was removed, and the bottom bolts removed. To the best of my knowledge, only four bolts hold the assembly together. I've got seperation on the drivers side, about 1/16", but none on the passengers side. I can't imagine what is keeping things together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2001, 12:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: north carolina
Posts: 37
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

3:33 am , I just looked at the 58 apachie in my yard . It has the crackerbox 3 speed muncie and a six in it . With the inspection pan removed I saw two lower bolts inside the bell and on the outside of the bell at the top 3 bolts , yes I found 3 , one on each side and one dead center on a pointed up section , looks kinda like a housetop . I have seen the normal 4 bolt pattern , but this one is five and if your engine is in the truck look over the top of your tranny to see if it has a center bolt where the tranny joins the bell . I remember having one like this stick in the bell and having to put a wedge between the bell and the trans to get them apart too . as far as your bell , when the trans comes off , remove the flywheel bolts from the flywheel and take the flywheel out then you can get to the bolts that hold the bell to the engine block and to my knowlege it wont fit a small block . I have used the 60 upto 72 small block bell from a chevrolet pickup to replace it with , I would also advise replacing the trans with the newer version saginaw 3 speed or if your lucky the fully syncronised muncie 3 speed , the V8 will explode that non syncro muncie , I have ate several of them in a 55 before I learned the hard way . I have a bad habit of putting automatics in these trucks . If your intent on running through the gears you can use a late model crossmember and a standard bell to accomadate the fully syncronised 3 speed . If you put even a decent running 283 in that truck you wont like the original tranny , trust me I know ,, I have a pile of them Ive distroyed . Im half asleep but if you need pictures , email me and I will pull out my digital camera and snap a few for you in the morning .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2001, 12:23 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: north carolina
Posts: 37
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

the four speed 58 non syncro tranny is similar to the three as it has a five bolt pattern too , I just looked at one I pulled out of a 3/4 ton a while back . I figure I would throw that thought in before the sandman shut me down completly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2001, 05:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

stimar1; Thanks for the reply. I'll look again, but I'm pretty sure this is a 4 bolt pattern. You stated that the tranny will not bolt up to the 283. I'm using a period block, a 58 rebuilt 283. Since this was an option in 58, I would think that it would bolt right up. I'm going for a restoration, as much factory original as I can, so I hope everything goes together. Also, the shop manual indicates to use guide pins to remove the transmission. Have you ever used them?
Thanks for the advise. I'll keep trying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2001, 10:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: north carolina
Posts: 37
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Gary its me again and Im a bit more awake now , If your bell looks like a house , in other words if you stand behind the engine and look you should see 6 bolts if its a V8 or 230 , 250 ,292 bell . their will be two bolts on the sides of the bell one straight up from the other , then the bell turns inward in an almost straight line upward to a point in the center , kinda looks like the end of a house . their will be a bolt on either side of the peak half way to the top . If its a 235 or 261 bell , the bell will look round , the flywheel will load from the bottom . the bell if I remember correctly has 4 big bolts on the flywheel side holding it to the block and two on the outside . All Chevrolet V8 engines from a 265 in 55 to a 454 have the house pattern on the rear of the block , as well as the 230 ,250, 292 inline six , so does a 229 and a 4.3 liter v6 and a rare few 4cy nova engines based on a 250 six missing 2 cylinders . there are a few late 70s early 80s 4cy with this pattern , the pontiac iron duke 151 is one of these . I know the big chevrolet 6 of the fifties has a bastard bell housing and it wont interchange with even a 265 or 283 from the fifties . If you have the house 6 bolt pattern , you have the later model 230 six engine . I have never seen a big 235 or 261 with that pattern . My 59 has the big six and it is the bastard bell . I talked to a friend that has restored these trucks , he advises the same I do . Find a fully syncronised 3 speed , use the V8 bell from a 64 to 72 chevrolet pickup and linkage to the column , He said you may have to make a slight modification because some 58 59 crossmembers have a different mounting location ,, the round bell has a slightly different angle on the mounts . I always used a camaro crossmember with a aluminum bell but if you want it to look stock you may have to try the option I mentioned . Im no expert on keeping it like origional , but I know the diff in the engines , been there and done it several times .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2001, 03:11 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

stinmar1; Thanks for the info. Looks like I need to shell out additional coin to make this conversion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.