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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2012, 10:12 PM
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Brian,
I am myself building an all wheel drive Model A, it is a very long term project due to financial constraints.

Many of the problems of this Cord project seem curiously deja-vu.
Fitting front drive under very low standard 30's chassis and front guards, with extremely limited total space, and sourcing a suitable front diff...
Been researching all this for a very long time, and have stumbled into some really curious and interesting stuff along the way.

The whole thing kind of stuck a chord........
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2012, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post
The whole thing kind of stuck a chord........
You mean "struck a Cord" right?

Brian
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:38 AM
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Yes.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post
Yes.
hi silver shadow, thanks for the input. the idea of a shaft extension is currently being explored and looks doable,if you google cords,Hollywood grahams,hupmobile skylark on page 2 #29 there is a cord with a g/m v8 fwd already installed,looks good,i heard he used about a 15'' extension.I'm trying to contact him to confirm it. the cord power train will posted for sale this week on the auburn,cord club site. as soon as it's sold work will begin immediately! thanks again for the excellant post. regards, jerry
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:46 PM
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Great stuff Jerry.

I had also thought very briefly about using a Porsche transaxle for this conversion, but that has one very major problem, getting the gear linkages back around the engine.
The other thing I don't like about a transaxle conversion would be the fan belt and radiator connections would be up against the firewall. It would just look messy and all wrong.

The tailshaft converted Toranado transmission solves just about all of the problems in a neat way, and all with a mix of completely stock readily available GM parts.

Probably many choices for a front diff, but the biggest problem you will face is finding one with a suitably tall gear ratio that is not about as heavy as the engine !!

Last edited by Silver Shadow; 08-27-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:46 PM
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This project brings back a lot of memories for me.

My great Grandfather (and several other family members) worked for Franklin in Syracuse NY. He also worked on the Tucker project, Bell Helicopters (after Franklin folded and re-emerged as Franklin Aircooled) and then again worked to some degree on the 'Flying Wing' experimental aircraft. My Grandad (his son in law) sort of inherited a new in the crate Franklin flat 6 aircraft motor. We've sort of poked around trying to come up with a unique project to use it in.

I love the Cord design; but working with a cadre of gearbox/powertrain designers, the Rzeppa joint is a problem and I imagine if you tried to re-engineer the drive system, it would be continual modifications to get where you want to be.

To that point; I met an elderly gentleman (easily into his mid-80s) who had owned a V12 Franklin coupe. This is aircooled and approx 350cid. He grew tired of having to deal with leaks and obsolete parts, not to mention constant adjustment of the engine. He hired a young guy who built custom efi engines for japanese cars. I never got into the details and the owner passed away but the Franklin was reborn using 454 Big Block Chevy efi parts.
The Franklin Club practically disowned the guy and really had some rough comments.

My way of thinking is this; its your cars, and while it hurts a little as a history buff, its OUT there being DRIVEN and getting people excited and interested in Cords. There are plenty of Franklin's around that require too many obsolete parts to become drivers...so they become static displays. And the Franklin Club isnt getting many NEW members, when one owner dies or becomes interested in other things, the car goes to someone who already owns Franklins thereby making the circle smaller and smaller. Ive firmly believed if they were more accepting of repowering certain examples of these cars instead of breaking them up for parts or static displays, they'd receive much more interest from younger people.

There are usually a couple Toronado's on eBay for a few grand. The only knock on the first year Toro's is the brakes were horrible for such a heavy car. Id say a 69 and later big motor Olds Toro would have most of what you're looking for, disc brakes and air conditioning (should you desire)
You could always throw some finned valvecovers with some billet inserts that say CORD and an interesting aircleaner arrangement, or even perhaps an unusual carburetor arrangement (weber carbs?) or perhaps an early McCullough supercharger to help further the illusion as being a "one-of-none" factory experimental. The nice thing about Cords is not many people KNOW whats supposed to be there so it wouldn't take too much to fool them
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
This project brings back a lot of memories for me.

My great Grandfather (and several other family members) worked for Franklin in Syracuse NY. He also worked on the Tucker project, Bell Helicopters (after Franklin folded and re-emerged as Franklin Aircooled) and then again worked to some degree on the 'Flying Wing' experimental aircraft. My Grandad (his son in law) sort of inherited a new in the crate Franklin flat 6 aircraft motor. We've sort of poked around trying to come up with a unique project to use it in.

I love the Cord design; but working with a cadre of gearbox/powertrain designers, the Rzeppa joint is a problem and I imagine if you tried to re-engineer the drive system, it would be continual modifications to get where you want to be.

To that point; I met an elderly gentleman (easily into his mid-80s) who had owned a V12 Franklin coupe. This is aircooled and approx 350cid. He grew tired of having to deal with leaks and obsolete parts, not to mention constant adjustment of the engine. He hired a young guy who built custom efi engines for japanese cars. I never got into the details and the owner passed away but the Franklin was reborn using 454 Big Block Chevy efi parts.
The Franklin Club practically disowned the guy and really had some rough comments.

My way of thinking is this; its your cars, and while it hurts a little as a history buff, its OUT there being DRIVEN and getting people excited and interested in Cords. There are plenty of Franklin's around that require too many obsolete parts to become drivers...so they become static displays. And the Franklin Club isnt getting many NEW members, when one owner dies or becomes interested in other things, the car goes to someone who already owns Franklins thereby making the circle smaller and smaller. Ive firmly believed if they were more accepting of repowering certain examples of these cars instead of breaking them up for parts or static displays, they'd receive much more interest from younger people.

There are usually a couple Toronado's on eBay for a few grand. The only knock on the first year Toro's is the brakes were horrible for such a heavy car. Id say a 69 and later big motor Olds Toro would have most of what you're looking for, disc brakes and air conditioning (should you desire)
You could always throw some finned valvecovers with some billet inserts that say CORD and an interesting aircleaner arrangement, or even perhaps an unusual carburetor arrangement (weber carbs?) or perhaps an early McCullough supercharger to help further the illusion as being a "one-of-none" factory experimental. The nice thing about Cords is not many people KNOW whats supposed to be there so it wouldn't take too much to fool them
hi autogear, you nailed it, i want to really drive this classic beauty,bring it to shows,cruise with it and above all enjoy it without the worries the original drive train posed.cord drive train weighs aprox.600+LBS,350C.I.V/8 FWD will be lighter,i'm looking enough H.P. to keep up with morden highway traffic and i intend to keep interior and exterior bone stock,only other mods will be safety related such as 12V. sealed beam lights,elec. wipers,PS,PB[discs] etc. thanks for the great post. regards,Jerry
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2012, 06:38 PM
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Here is hoping your parts sell quickly and you are able to get started with this project. I know it will be fascinating to follow. Please keep us updated with details and pictures. Good luck to you as you move forward.

John L
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2012, 06:39 AM
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Here is hoping your parts sell quickly and you are able to get started with this project. I know it will be fascinating to follow. Please keep us updated with details and pictures. Good luck to you as you move forward.

John L
hi john, my cord drive train will be posted for sale this week on the auburn,cord club site.in addition to eng.&trans. all suspension pcs.springs,rear axle,all brake components,radiator etc. will be sold off.funds from sale of parts should capitalize a major portion of swap! honestly i can't wait to get this project started,promise to keep you all informed! thanks,john. warmest regards,jerry
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2012, 09:03 AM
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1972 OLDS TORONADO FOR PARTS OR WHOLE | eBay

Heres a 72 toronado parts car.

Jerry one thing you haven mentioned is the envelope the Cord gives you to work with...

How wide can you go and not have the wheels stick out the fenders? How wide can the engine be and still give you room to work (plugs, exhaust, steering linkage) Most of these cars are going to have floor mounted shifters, I imagine a company like Shiftworks could help you come up with a dash mounted gear lever (the corvair and some others had a dash mounted automatic lever in a bezel). You may have to get one of those and adapt it to the 3speed of the donor vehicle, or go with an aftermarket column with column shift.

An olds 455 is a fairly large motor, but several can be adapted to the FWD setup, assuming you can stuff the toronado/eldorado front end under the Cord (gosh its still weird typing things like 'stuff it into a CORD')

Several years ago (before digital cameras) I helped stuff a gm iron duke 4cylinder and 5speed into a jeep pickup truck (converted to 2wd). The guy who was doing this, found fabric wire coverings to slip over the modern harness and he had a vinyl graphics company redesign some stickers to make it look more factory. It came off pretty well.

I realize you're a bit older than some here, maybe if you gave us some envelope dimensions, we can paw around in our yards and give you some more accurate ideas
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2012, 09:19 AM
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One of the critical dimensions is the width of the Cord front end hub to hub..That will be most helpful in determining what a good donor will be..I am concerned that the Toronado front end would be too wide and cause a great deal of expense in rework to make it fit..

Sam
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2012, 03:04 PM
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I agree, the original big block Olds engine is huge and extremely heavy, and probably not a good choice for this project.

The Toranado gearbox could probably be made to bolt up to something like an LSx engine which would be smaller, lighter, more powerful and with much better fuel economy.

The original Toranado diff and front suspension are just totally in the wrong place.
A Toranado engine sits exactly right between the front wheels. The Cord engine is set way back a long way behind the front wheels.

The only usable part of a whole Toranado would be just the bare automatic transmission, no need to get a whole donor car.

Jerry, what is the front track width, and wheel flange to wheel flange width of your Cord ?
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 10:41 AM
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One of the critical dimensions is the width of the Cord front end hub to hub..That will be most helpful in determining what a good donor will be..I am concerned that the Toronado front end would be too wide and cause a great deal of expense in rework to make it fit..

Sam
hi Sam, thanks for your great posts,the front track of the cord is 58'' the toro is 63.5" i don't have hub to hub meas.(my cuz has them at his shop),we are probably going to use a 350 crate eng. big blk. was never considered, looking at later 4 spd. toro auto. check out cords ,hollywood ghrams ,hupmobile skylarks pg.2 #29 this site to see it done. gotta go, thanks again sam, regards jerry
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post
I agree, the original big block Olds engine is huge and extremely heavy, and probably not a good choice for this project.

The Toranado gearbox could probably be made to bolt up to something like an LSx engine which would be smaller, lighter, more powerful and with much better fuel economy.

The original Toranado diff and front suspension are just totally in the wrong place.
A Toranado engine sits exactly right between the front wheels. The Cord engine is set way back a long way behind the front wheels.

The only usable part of a whole Toranado would be just the bare automatic transmission, no need to get a whole donor car.

Jerry, what is the front track width, and wheel flange to wheel flange width of your Cord ?
hi again silver shadow, your right about big blk.olds.,see my reply to one more time (sam) for more details. thanks for the post. regards,jerry
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 07:24 PM
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Hi there,

"the front track of the cord is 58'' the toro is 63.5" i don't have hub to hub meas.(my cuz has them at his shop),"

the Chevy Colorado has a front track of 1460mm / 57.4 inches, should be in the ballpark for size/weight/strength. The wrecking yards can check nationwide for you for price/availability.

Have fun with it and keep posting.
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