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Old 04-26-2012, 11:29 PM
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Engine Temperature

Hey Guys I Have A Question I Just Purchased An All Aluminum Radiator My Temperature On A Hot Day And Me Running It For A Distance Was 190-200 With This One Now It Runs 150-160 But Usually In About 60 70 Degree Weather It'll Run About 130 140 Is This A Bad Thing? I Have A 350 With A Cam Edelbrock Intake This Is My Second Temperature Gauge And It Reads The Same So The Temperature Is Right Any Suggestions? Thanks

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Old 04-27-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Juan
Hey Guys I Have A Question I Just Purchased An All Aluminum Radiator My Temperature On A Hot Day And Me Running It For A Distance Was 190-200 With This One Now It Runs 150-160 But Usually In About 60 70 Degree Weather It'll Run About 130 140 Is This A Bad Thing? I Have A 350 With A Cam Edelbrock Intake This Is My Second Temperature Gauge And It Reads The Same So The Temperature Is Right Any Suggestions? Thanks
No not really a bad thing, but what size thermostat you have in it ?


Cole
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:43 AM
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Double post.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:00 AM
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Hummm!!!!!!!!!!!!! i did not know this.



Cole
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Juan
Hey Guys I Have A Question I Just Purchased An All Aluminum Radiator My Temperature On A Hot Day And Me Running It For A Distance Was 190-200 With This One Now It Runs 150-160 But Usually In About 60 70 Degree Weather It'll Run About 130 140 Is This A Bad Thing? I Have A 350 With A Cam Edelbrock Intake This Is My Second Temperature Gauge And It Reads The Same So The Temperature Is Right Any Suggestions? Thanks
Crossing the bridge between what was there that ran 190-200 and what is now there running 150-160 is there a common thermostat between these events? Or is there a thermostat given the freedom to run 130-140 on a cooler day.

These temps are too low 130-140 or 150-160. The original temps of 190-200 are much better. The big problem, even in California, is moisture in the crankcase. This is always high compared to the surrounding air especially in the greater Los Angeles area where the air is pretty dry. The crankcase water vapor comes in the blow-by. Roughly 1/2 the weight of gasoline burnt is turned to water the other half being mostly CO2. Some of this is carried around the piston and rings to contaminate the oil in the crankcase. So operating the engine is a constant addition of water vapor into the oil. It is, therefore, important to keep the oil temp in a range where the water is kept in a vapor state so it can be vented off with the breathers. So running coolant temps close to the boiling point of water helps insure the oil is hot enough for the vapor to separate from the oil to be carried away by the vent system.

There are a host of other good reasons to keep the engine temp up close to 200 F but I'm trying not to write a book here. But it's better for clearances, casting stability, and oil flow to mention a few in passing.

Bogie
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:52 AM
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It Don't Have One I Took It Off I Live In L.a So It Doesnt Get Too Cold Here It Over Heated A While Back So I Had To Do A Quick Ficks And Never Put One Back On Some People Told Me I Didn't Really Need It Kus Those Are Mainly For Places Where It Gets Really Cold.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:56 AM
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@ Oldbogie So Should I Put A Thermostat On My Car? Or What Can I Do To Pick Up The Temperature On My Car?
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:02 AM
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Yes you need a thermostat. Without one the water constantly circulates, cooling off too much. The t-stat holds the coolant back in the block to heat it up some.
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:25 AM
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Get a thermostat, a 210. I can't believe there are still people that run on the street without one!

Id also advise getting one that "fails in the open position" just in case.
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:28 AM
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Yes it needs a t-stat i would put a 195 in it and roll on should be just fine. JMO


Cole
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Phat Juan
@ Oldbogie So Should I Put A Thermostat On My Car? Or What Can I Do To Pick Up The Temperature On My Car?
Yes 130-150 isn't hot enough. The thermostat keeps the engine in a tight temperature range. Without out it the front tow cylinders run way too cold, they see the coolant straight out of the radiator and are always the coolest least power producing cylinders.

The thermostat also doesn't allow great excursions of temperature. There is a phenomenon know as cold seizure, while a larger problem with air cooled engines it can also happen with a liquid cooled engine. This is a case where the throttle is suddenly closed after a high power high, RPM run and the sudden drop in power thus heat in the cylinder causes the cylinder to cool and contract faster than the piston, grabbing it. This usually breaks something expensive like the piston or rod, a common lessor effect is scoring the cylinder wall. The thermostat doesn't allow a sudden drop in engine temp when this happens thus avoiding the problem. The best solution for engine temperature management is found in many road going diesel rigs and in the LT1/Lt4 and subsequent LS type engines where the returning hot coolant and the incoming cold coolant are mixed to maintain a very tight temp range, this greatly reduces the sub optimal chilling of the cylinders or combustion chambers that see the arriving coolant. These things that add power, efficiency and life span to an engine. Like I said this is an issue I could write a book about which would be rather excessive for this blog. For many years it wasn't done on production cars as a cost savings measure to the manufacturer. On big commercial engines, including the liquid cooled aircraft engines of the WW II era, where high power, efficiency, and long life are important factors the mixing of hot and cooled coolant to hold a very tight and fairly high temperature range inside the engine was deemed very important. In today's world of tight emissions with high power and greatly improved fuel economy even the grocery getter's are getting the upper end costly cooling systems.

I'll also submit for consideration that I spent my youth and much of my early adult life in San Diego and San Luis Obispo counties so I'm not unfamiliar with cooling engines in that semi-desert zone where I always ran a thermostat on street engines.

Don't use the local water for coolant or mixing with coolants, that stuff that passes for tap water in Southern California is highly corrosive inside engine cooling systems. Use distilled or de-ionized bottled water in the cooling system.

Bogie
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Without out it the front tow cylinders run way too cold, they see the coolant straight out of the radiator and are always the coolest least power producing cylinders.
That would be on reverse flow cooling systems though, right?

On Gen1 SBC coolant goes to the block first and when it gets to the heads, the rear cylinders are cooled first, right?
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Surfer
That would be on reverse flow cooling systems though, right?

On Gen1 SBC coolant goes to the block first and when it gets to the heads, the rear cylinders are cooled first, right?

no.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Surfer
That would be on reverse flow cooling systems though, right?

On Gen1 SBC coolant goes to the block first and when it gets to the heads, the rear cylinders are cooled first, right?
Gen I's feed pump output right against the front cylinders 1 and 2. GM has many upward feeds into the heads unlike Ford where the coolant is forced to the rear of the block then flows up to the rear of the head and forward again so these have a condition where the coolest cylinder in front has the hottest combustion chamber and the hottest cylinder in back has the coolest combustion chamber. The Chevy isn't so much that way but it does sort of follow that theme. The Chevy depends upon restrictions to the connection passages provided by the head gasket to establish the sort of rear to front flow within the head. But if you look at the gasket and passages you can see that quite a bit of coolant can enter the block and flow to the front of the head and return to the radiator without having done much work.

The Gen IIs put pump outlet coolant into a passage within the block that redirects the coolant into the front of the head but again Chevy uses many returns back to the block where the coolant flows forward to exit from passages below the inlet to connect with the blending valve with cold coolant from the radiator. The unblended portion continuing on to the radiator.

For many years racers have partially blocked the pump output on Gen I blocks while drilling and tapping the pump horns to take coolant and redirect it into specific places on the block and head. Smokey Yunick was an advocate of shutting off the flow into the front of the block almost completely and redirecting it through hose connections into the block at the soft plug locations to try and even out the cylinder to cylinder temp variations. Others just connect a hose to put coolant into the head between the paired exhausts. These are often used with 4 corner returns with what are often heater connections at the rear of the head/intake manifold being made an active coolant return. This, also, puts a stop to steam formation over the rear combustion chambers from becoming trapped there. But this a a racing thing you don't need this for a street engine. In the attempt to even out temperatures many engines had coolant distribution tubes placed into the cooling jackets, this used to be quite common on production engines as well till the mid 1950's when they were deemed un-necessary and eliminated.

The Gen II mixing valve solution is probably as good as any for a street engine although the areas where coolant enters will be cooler they not so much cooler as with a regular system.

I'm not faulting any of these schemes, but the Ford is more classic in creating a flow in the block front to rear gaining heat as it moves to the rear, with a very major flow entering the back of the heads to then flow forward to the radiator return. But they don't use paired exhaust valves like the Chevy which may be why the Gen I, Chevy does what it does in order to get more coolant around that area of heat concentration.

Bogie
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:13 PM
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Thanks Bogie! I think you should write a book!
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