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Old 12-01-2010, 08:20 AM
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Engine Wont Shut Off if the Brakes Are On...?

All right, professional lurker here, with an unusual problem...

I have a '76 Chevy Short Stepside body, with it's original wiring. It originally had a 305, 3speed on the tree transmission, manual brakes, manual steering, and a ton of random light strips all over the exterior. I pulled a 350sbc from a GMC fleetside, rebuilt it from the block up, and dropped it into the Chevy along with the GMC's 400 turbo tranny, power brakes, power steering, steering column, etc. Dropped everything in, plugged in the Chevy's wiring, removed the wiring from the random light strips, and everything seemed to work fine.

The GMC was a driver, but never had any keys. You just jumped in, turned the ignition, and away it went. Same is true of the Chevy now. Obviously, since I haven't fixed it yet .

It runs like a top, but when you come to a stop, put it in park, and turn off the ignition switch with your foot STILL on the brake, it will continue to run without hesitation. Soon as you let off the brake, it shuts off. If you turn off the ignition without touching the brake, it shuts off like it should. It starts and runs great.

Also, there is a dead short somewhere. With ONLY the positive terminal of the battery hooked up, a multimeter strung from the negative terminal to ANY part of the car reads 12volts. Hence why the battery dies quickly, I'm guessing

At some point the neutral safety switch was jumpered, not plugged into anything. I'll see if I can find where it goes today.

Any thoughts? I'm guessing it's a wire shorting out somewhere, causing it to feed through the coil even with the ignition off. But what difference does the brake make??? That's confusing. All of the grounds are hooked up well, as far as I can tell. I'm tearing into it today, but any suggestions/experiences will be greatly appreciated!
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:08 PM
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About all I can think of at this time is popping fuses out until you locate the area where this short is coming from. One fuse at a time, read your voltmerter, until it stops reading.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:06 PM
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engine won't shut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by playswithfire
All right, professional lurker here, with an unusual problem...

I have a '76 Chevy Short Stepside body, with it's original wiring. It originally had a 305, 3speed on the tree transmission, manual brakes, manual steering, and a ton of random light strips all over the exterior. I pulled a 350sbc from a GMC fleetside, rebuilt it from the block up, and dropped it into the Chevy along with the GMC's 400 turbo tranny, power brakes, power steering, steering column, etc. Dropped everything in, plugged in the Chevy's wiring, removed the wiring from the random light strips, and everything seemed to work fine.

The GMC was a driver, but never had any keys. You just jumped in, turned the ignition, and away it went. Same is true of the Chevy now. Obviously, since I haven't fixed it yet .

It runs like a top, but when you come to a stop, put it in park, and turn off the ignition switch with your foot STILL on the brake, it will continue to run without hesitation. Soon as you let off the brake, it shuts off. If you turn off the ignition without touching the brake, it shuts off like it should. It starts and runs great.

Also, there is a dead short somewhere. With ONLY the positive terminal of the battery hooked up, a multimeter strung from the negative terminal to ANY part of the car reads 12volts. Hence why the battery dies quickly, I'm guessing

At some point the neutral safety switch was jumpered, not plugged into anything. I'll see if I can find where it goes today.

Any thoughts? I'm guessing it's a wire shorting out somewhere, causing it to feed through the coil even with the ignition off. But what difference does the brake make??? That's confusing. All of the grounds are hooked up well, as far as I can tell. I'm tearing into it today, but any suggestions/experiences will be greatly appreciated!
I would do as dinger said but to shorten up the time it takes I would start with the brake/turn signal, it sounds like you pinched a wire when you changed columns. As far as the NSS goes That runs between the ING. switch and the Starter, you have a wire come out of the connector on the bottom of the column, if your key is in the column, goes to one side of the NSS and then a wire to the S terminal on the starter. On the long flat connector on the column the white is the stoplight switch, Dark green right rear stop light, yellow the left.
By the way the ING SW. is always hot at the battery terminal.

Bob
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:49 PM
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Well ALL it can be is a feedback from your brake lamp circuit to your ignition circuit. Being these two never cross pathes it has to be a cross wiring in from your brake light to ignition circuit.

The most likely place is the steering column. That is the ONE place that I can think of where you have both brake and ignition circuits. You have the ignition switch wiring and the turnsignal switch where your tail lamp circuit and brake light circuit runs.

Unplug the turn signal switch at the column and see if the motor will shut off properly.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 12-01-2010 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:56 PM
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engine won't shut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Well ALL it can be is a feedback from your tail lamp circuit to your ignition circuit. Being these two never cross pathes it has to be a cross wiring in from your brake light to ignition circuit.

The most likely place is the steering column. That is the ONE place that I can think of where you have both brake and ignition circuits. You have the ignition switch wiring and the turnsignal switch where your tail lamp circuit runs.

Unplug the turn signal switch at the column and see if the motor will shut off properly.

Brian
I agree it's in the column, as lomg as the key is in the column.

Bob
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:16 PM
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Yeah, 76 it's in the column. But reading my post again, I made a mistake in saying "Tail lamp circuit" it should read BRAKE light circuit. (I fixed it. )

Brian
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:27 PM
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engine won't shut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Yeah, 76 it's in the column. But reading my post again, I made a mistake in saying "Tail lamp circuit" it should read BRAKE light circuit. (I fixed it. )

Brian
Thanks Brian for the info I didn't know which year they changed.

Bob

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Old 12-01-2010, 06:33 PM
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69 was the year for passenger cars I have to assume trucks were the same. But I now for sure in the early seventies they were in the column.

Brian
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:21 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions! I would agree on all counts. The steering column is the most likely place in my opinion as well. However some folks have suggested that a faulty ground... well, they basically just said, 'Makes weird stuff happen.' And that's from a professional auto electrician.

Yesterday the electrical stumped me. Spent most of the day tracking down wires, unplugging stuff... No moments of inspiration though. But I got the last coat of paint on it. I'm an amateur painter, and it shows Doesn't really matter though, it's flat black, and while there are still a couple of dings, the rust is all gone and the good steel is sealed in there, to be perfected at a later date. And frankly, I kinda like the flat black with a couple of dings, look. At least for a pickup. And at least, with the knowledge that some day it will have a real paint job!

I'll keep you guys posted on when/if I figure out what the problem is, and I'll post up a picture or two this weekend. Again, thanks for the ideas!
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:34 AM
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A bad ground is the first thing I thought of as well HOWEVER these two circuits never cross! So there has to be someone sort of crossing of them to make this occur I would think.

Brian
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:14 AM
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engine won't shut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
A bad ground is the first thing I thought of as well HOWEVER these two circuits never cross! So there has to be someone sort of crossing of them to make this occur I would think.

Brian
Brian did that truck have the lever type brake switch under the pedal, the wires would come into the column in the same bundle. I don't have any diagrams of this, so about all I'm doing is guessing.

Bob
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:04 PM
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I believe it is a push button style switch.

Brian
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:53 PM
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It does have the push button... or lift button?... switch, but that is still mounted on the steering column, and since that's one of the only pieces of wiring we messed with, it could well be there.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:38 PM
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The button is called a "normally closed" while a bottom that would turn something on when you push it IN is a "normally open" switch.

Brian
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
69 was the year for passenger cars I have to assume trucks were the same. But I now for sure in the early seventies they were in the column.

Brian
Dash to Column Ign. switch for Trucks was in 73 when the square box style bodies came out.
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