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Old 09-01-2010, 09:20 AM
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Engine Wont Start. Making Banging Sound.

I've had my 383 V8 running in my bug for a while now. Runs real good. I've taken it around the neighborhood plenty of times and have about 50 miles on it. I've cruised it and have brought the rpm to about 5,500 just to help seal the rings up and to see what she would do.

My problem occurred last night. Must say I have a some what small battery on the bug. It's always turned the engine over kinda slow but just fast enough to start her, but I don't this is the problem.

I was going to pull her out of the garage last night so I could put my truck on a level surface to do a brake job. I went to start her up and the engine turned over like norma and then all of a sudden the starter was acting up. Not a grinding sound but more like something is binding keeping the starter from turning the engine over...? I could smell an electric stench. I crawled under the car to peek at the flywheel and had a buddy bump the starter. Everything looks lined up and fine. No ground flywheel teeth. My starter is shimmed properly, 1/8 clearance.

Then this is what REALLY boggles me. I bumped it again to see what's the deal, it continues to make the noise and then the engine made a really loud banging sound. It sounded like someone took a sledgehammer and hit a solid plate a of steel. Now I'm thinking, great. A something internally has come apart. I guess it could be worse if that's the case. At least is was during a slow start and not while I was hotrodding it.

I then turned the engine over slowly with a torque wrench set at about 65 lbs, it would click and then the engine would turn over. I'm guessing it took about 70 lbs to turn over the engine. The engine turned freely and I couldn't hear anything really going on inside other than compressed air leaking from the cylinder.

Anyone have a guess *** to what's going on? The last time it ran everything seemed fine. Pulled it in the garage and shut her down. Temp has been fine (no hotter than 210), oil pressure has been fine...I'm stumped. The only thing I can think to do at this point is to pull the engine and pull the pan.

Thoughts? Thanks!

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Old 09-01-2010, 09:32 AM
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Just to add, it only make the loud banging sound twice out of probably 5-6 complete revolutions of the engine. The engine hasn't been knocking or anything either during it's operation.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:42 AM
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The starter is shot. Since I`ve delt with this issue so many times in the past I`ve heard them bang, crack, creak, grind, you name it. When you reinstall the starter torque the bolts to 35 ft lbs and the problem likely won`t reoccur. All the starter has to do is move just a fraction and something goes wrong. Usually when they go to banging the nose is cracked so you may want to check over it. The dragging starter may not be due to a smaller battery, but lack of grounds.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:41 AM
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It could possibly be that the oil pump pickup fell off when you last shut it off . It would not be the first time that has happened . You might drain the engine oil and then poke around with a screwdriver through the drain plug hole to check it out . Let us know what you find . It may help someone else .
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:43 AM
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Thanks DoubleVision. I'm happy to hear it'll turn out to just be a starter problem. I didn't realize they could make such as noise, but now that I think of it that makes sense. I could see how it would skip or possibly jump a tooth and thud right back into place, which would explain the sound.

When I last installed the starter I torqued it to 35 lb., which I'll do again. It'll be a PITA changing the starter (S10 frame), but nothing compared to what I was thinking.

I believe you're right about the battery too. It has plenty of cold cranking amps for a V8 cause it has turned it over just fine before and I was sure to get the minimum required. I figured the battery was getting lazy cause it doesn't hold as much juice as a larger battery would. At least that's how I figured it.

Thanks again. You learn something new everyday.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:50 AM
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Please post what you find when you do get it fixed . Thanks
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adantessr
It could possibly be that the oil pump pickup fell off when you last shut it off . It would not be the first time that has happened . You might drain the engine oil and then poke around with a screwdriver through the drain plug hole to check it out . Let us know what you find . It may help someone else .
Thanks for the advice. I believe it's okay though. Psi is around 65 cold with the choke on. Once warm, at idle it's 23-25 psi. Wouldn't I see a drop in oil pressure if that were true?

I'll keep you guys posted.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:51 PM
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Not sure what kind of tranny you have (you said flywheel but did you mean flexplate?) loose torque convertor bolts through the flex plate can make one hell of an evil clammer when you crank it over, happened to me the other day on start up and I thought the engine had broke...nasty,

383 bug eh..gives new meaning to superbug for sure.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10
Not sure what kind of tranny you have (you said flywheel but did you mean flexplate?) loose torque convertor bolts through the flex plate can make one hell of an evil clammer when you crank it over, happened to me the other day on start up and I thought the engine had broke...nasty,

383 bug eh..gives new meaning to superbug for sure.
Oh, sorry about that. It's a flexplate. Don't know what I was thinking. Tranny is a th350.

Good call. I'll check the torque on those while I'm under there replacing the starter.

It's how they should've come from the factory.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
The dragging starter may not be due to a smaller battery, but lack of grounds.
Oh, forgot to mention. I have a ground going from the battery to the frame. Battery is in the back under the car. I also have a ground going from the engine accessory hole to the frame. I'm using 2 gauge wire and clean contacts. Ground the paint from the chassis when I did so.
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Super Beetle
Thanks for the advice. I believe it's okay though. Psi is around 65 cold with the choke on. Once warm, at idle it's 23-25 psi. Wouldn't I see a drop in oil pressure if that were true?

I'll keep you guys posted.
Well to tell the whole story , My t-bucket had oil pressure until it got down to only 2-1/2 quarts in the oil pan . (The guy I bought it from had put in a chrome dipstick tube and dipstick apparently for a 7 qt pan and the dipstick was marked wrong for the 5 qt pan .) I found this out when I drained the oil which was on the full mark after I lost oil pressure . I decided to drop the pan and put in a new oil pump and that's when I found the pickup had fallen off . So from that experience , I'd have to say that with the proper quantity of oil in oil pan , you'd probably still have good oil pressure even with the pickup laying in the bottom of the pan . But let's just hope it is just a bad starter . BTW .. I put 5qts of oil with a new filter and remarked the dipstick after running the engine for a few minutes after the repairs .
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:32 AM
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If you don't have the factory rear support bracket/brace installed on the end of the starter it will fuggg up. The two starter bolts alone are not enough.
When the starter comes loose it will strip the bolts out of the block, trashing the block. Get the $10 brace and install a new starter motor. The nose is likely chewed now. Make sure you have correct starter bolts too.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adantessr
Well to tell the whole story , My t-bucket had oil pressure until it got down to only 2-1/2 quarts in the oil pan . (The guy I bought it from had put in a chrome dipstick tube and dipstick apparently for a 7 qt pan and the dipstick was marked wrong for the 5 qt pan .) I found this out when I drained the oil which was on the full mark after I lost oil pressure . I decided to drop the pan and put in a new oil pump and that's when I found the pickup had fallen off . So from that experience , I'd have to say that with the proper quantity of oil in oil pan , you'd probably still have good oil pressure even with the pickup laying in the bottom of the pan . But let's just hope it is just a bad starter . BTW .. I put 5qts of oil with a new filter and remarked the dipstick after running the engine for a few minutes after the repairs .
For some reason I misread your post. I was thinking you were talking about the pump itself. The pickup on my oil pump is welded on, so I think it's good.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
If you don't have the factory rear support bracket/brace installed on the end of the starter it will fuggg up. The two starter bolts alone are not enough.
When the starter comes loose it will strip the bolts out of the block, trashing the block. Get the $10 brace and install a new starter motor. The nose is likely chewed now. Make sure you have correct starter bolts too.
Thanks f-bird. I know what you're talking about. I have the correct starter bolts. Hopefully it'll just need the starter swap and the added factory brace. I will report back once I have the time to take care of it.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Super Beetle
For some reason I misread your post. I was thinking you were talking about the pump itself. The pickup on my oil pump is welded on, so I think it's good.
Welding it on is a great idea . I drilled and tapped my pump for a setscrew .
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