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Old 08-02-2007, 10:13 PM
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epoxy or etching primer

I have read a lot of discussion on the forum about the use of epoxy on bare metal. I understand that it seals the surface and that plastic filler sticks well to it. I have a new set of smoothie boards that I need to seal up so they do not start to rust. I am wondering what to use on these. I have been using Evercoats Slick Sand polyester primer and love it! It claims to have excellent adhesion, but it is not recommended over etching primer. I worked as a collision tech 10+ years ago, and try to keep up. But I am a little hesitant to epoxy as I heard it is not easy to sand. I will also need to do slight body filling on the weld edges. None of the new filler manufaturers endorse this to my knowledge. I also am unclear to how long epoxy can set before requirig sanding? What grit do you break it with if appling filler? Pros? Cons?
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:43 PM
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Well, there is more than one way to skin a cat, as I'm sure you know, and the filler over bare metal or epoxy battle has been fought over and over. An interesting point about polyester primers like Slick Sand is that, like body filler, they can be applied over epoxy after a waiting period. Also, Evercoat's Featherfill G2 is advertised as being OK to apply over self-etching primers, though this extends the dry time.

As to the recoat window, the epoxy I use can be recoated without sanding for seven days, though after four days I like to make sure that any unworked areas are at least scuffed with a Scotchbrite pad before further priming. Not all epoxies have this long of a recoat window! More than one I have seen has a 72 hour window, and some may be even shorter for all I know. The same rule applies to filler applications as far as I know, the open recoat window means a variety of materials will adhere to the surface of the epoxy with no sanding, though a good scuff prior to application won't hurt, especially in the last half of the recoat window.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:50 PM
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Make sure you read the tech sheets on the epoxy's as they are not all created equal by any means. There is one of the big fours epoxy's that you cannot put any polyester filler or poly primer on. Cured or not cured. They have changed the formula and its a big time disaster.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:52 PM
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That's good to know! May we know which one?
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:01 PM
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Crash.... PM'd ya Bro

I guess I can post this as its on the web.
http://www.klinesauto.com/PDFs/April...hpolyester.pdf

Last edited by 46chevyfleetline; 08-02-2007 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:12 AM
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i use epoxy to fix everything in the navy. there was a 2 part mix to fix just about anything. one thing i learned is if it does not smell like strong glue it is an epoxy mix. i use spi because it is a true epoxy. not a bunch of fillers with some epoxy thrown in . i use it from first coat to paint. nothing else. as for sanding i think it is way better than high build primers. it's a little tougher so you can control what comes off. jmho
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35prog
I have read a lot of discussion on the forum about the use of epoxy on bare metal. I understand that it seals the surface and that plastic filler sticks well to it. I have a new set of smoothie boards that I need to seal up so they do not start to rust. I am wondering what to use on these. I have been using Evercoats Slick Sand polyester primer and love it! It claims to have excellent adhesion, but it is not recommended over etching primer. I worked as a collision tech 10+ years ago, and try to keep up. But I am a little hesitant to epoxy as I heard it is not easy to sand. I will also need to do slight body filling on the weld edges. None of the new filler manufaturers endorse this to my knowledge. I also am unclear to how long epoxy can set before requirig sanding? What grit do you break it with if appling filler? Pros? Cons?
Some epoxies sand OK, SPI epoxy sands the best IMO.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:10 PM
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Most filler manufacturer's recognize the advantages of using polyester products over epoxy but in collision repairs (where most of the product sales are) the procedure is too slow. With the epoxies I use I let it set overnight then apply polyester without any need for scuffing. After a few days If I feel the window has closed I simply scuff up the epoxy with 180 before any polyester products. The European's have been using the epoxy before anything method for many years, and I was introduced to it back in the late 80's. The quality and lifespan is much greater, but it takes more time-no good in a collision repair environment.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:55 PM
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When you're using Epoxy over bare metal as a sealer, you don't sand it. It should be as thin as paint and flow out. You should apply a 2K primer over it as a fill. So I don't think sanding is an issue.

Frank
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:25 PM
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Some shops use it as their regular primer also,, it's ok to do this you just have to know what you are doing and watch your dry times..
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:34 PM
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I am in the process of doing a 67 Mustang right now. I have not applied anything except epoxy on that one, except a couple of spots that got thin coats of metal glaze, and seam sealer where needed. There will be no 2K primer on this car at all, as all blocking was done with epoxy. All the epoxy was shot thru a 1.4 tip. Except the last coat of Epoxy, before top coating, it has not been reduced.

Use a quality product, do the work right, and you can reduce the number of products that you have to deal with. The less products that you have to buy, the easier it makes things in the long run. Too many people depend on High Build primer to cover up poor bodywork.

Aaron
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Old 08-06-2007, 07:29 AM
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exactly...
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Old 08-06-2007, 06:34 PM
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Just my 2 cents ! When I use epoxy, I always try to top coat it with a 2k primer if I can right away so I don't have to sand it. The exception to this is when I use epoxy to protect a panel from rusting on a long term project. As far as Slick Sand, I spray this over all my final bodywork to give me a homogeneous surface to sand. This is the best kept secret to getting that perfect surface. I've tried 3M and Pol, but Slick Sand seems to be the most economical. You can check out my car that I've done at www.geocities.com/dantechfab using the "epoxy and Slick sand method". I'm not a body-man, but the end result is flawless to get me a few best in show trophies. Dan
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Old 08-06-2007, 06:51 PM
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depending on the brand epoxy can be re-coated in as much as 7 days without sanding. i use only epoxy for surfacing . when finished blasting i wash and epoxy all sheet metal.
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Old 08-06-2007, 08:01 PM
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Besides the fact that epoxy is a much stronger substrait compaired to 2K primer which contains primarly Talc.Chipping is greatly reduced as well.
Not knocking the poly primers as they go a great job but blocking your epoxy in steps & grades provides a quality,quicker finish to paint over.
Choose your epoxy wisely as they are not all equal. HOK & SPI are 2 of the best available now and SPI is just a killer product for the cost.
I too have been doing only epoxy on several projects and being that i don't get to work on them everyday,the 7 day window comes in real handy.
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