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Old 02-14-2007, 09:26 AM
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epoxy or etching primer over bare metal?

Good morning, this is my first post. However, I have been reading yours' for some time now, and have learned a lot,-thanks. I'm prepping a 79 cougar xr-7. I only have to take it down to bare metal in a few places,-hood,-turtle hull, etc.. The man at the paint store (ppg) said, I should put etching primer on the bare metal, but after reading your post, I think epoxy primer would be better, especially if I get delayed by the weather before I can paint. (1). Do I need both? I have two small spots that need filler. Etching primer doesn't like bondo, and I will have bare metal around that spot (why use it?) (2). Should I just shoot epoxy on the bare metal, sand it later, spot prime with 2k, block sd, epoxy seal, then paint. (3). Should I prime the whole car 2k, block, seal, and paint? The surface is in good shape, just a little rust and wore out paint. (silver)Thanks

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Old 02-14-2007, 10:26 AM
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Don't worry about the etching primer, just use a good epoxy primer/sealer. You get more bang for the buck, as you can reduce it a little more and use it as a sealer before you apply your base coat. It's like getting 2 for 1 price. If the surface metal is prepared right, and clean you won't have any problem.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:09 AM
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Thanks, countilaw. Should I prime the whole car with 2k?
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:14 AM
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Etching primer is the old way..I use epoxy for everything now..You can reduce the epoxy about 10% as a seal coat..It is important to get a uniform ground coat on the car specially if you are doing a BC/CC or Kandy finish..

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Old 02-14-2007, 11:23 AM
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Depends on the condition of the rest of the car. If it has good paint no. The good paint just needs to be prepped with scuffing. If it all bare metal, yes. Never let bare metal sit for 2 or 3 days before you get something on it. Rust starts very quick. So if you can't work on the car for a couple of days, shoot a coat of sealer on it.

Thin the 2k to make a seal coat, then do all your body work on top of the "sealer". Then use the 2k full strenght for primer over all the areas that you did the body work. Then block sand your repaired areas.

After youv'e done all the repairs and ready for the first coat of base, you can reduce the 2k and spray the whole car again. This will act like a sealer and give on ONE color to apply your base coat over. I use a white 2k or epoxy primer/sealer for my light base coat colors and light grey for other colors.

If you want RED to really be bright, paint the car with 3 coats of yellow first, then the RED. (Just food for thought)

Always remember, the salesman at the paint store wants to sell you paint. And they will sell you a lot of s***t that you don't need.

There is alot of contraversy regarding Lacquer Primer. Whether to use it or not. I've used it for years and continue to use it. Mainly on the fresh body work to get a smooth surface as in over sanded filler. Once I am satisfied with the surface, I use epoxy primer/sealer over the area.
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:16 PM
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Thanks again sam and counti. sorry it took so long to reply, I had a problem navigating to find yours. You reinforced my ideas on the priming counti, so now I won't have doubts as I proceed on my project. I hate to to undertake a project if I have doubts about the process. Many thanks. Ol' country boy from texas.
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:32 PM
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counti, did you mean- body work over the epoxy primer? You weren't suggesting over 2k urathane were you? Just won't to be sure. Thanks again
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:33 PM
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You can do your body work right over the epoxy. Especially for little dents like door dings. However, usually with larger dents you will pull or hammer then out close to shape. I will sand these areas down with 40 grit on a DA and then apply the filler to the scratched metal. Once I have got the repair done, I will spray another coat (or 2) of Epoxy over that.

But on the small dents, just put your filler over the epoxy.

After all the dents are fixed, and body work done, I will shoot a coat of Epoxy Sealer over the whole car to obain a single color for the first color coat (ground coat) to go over. This also seals any bare metal or plastic filler that you can see after the body work.
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:04 PM
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There's no way I'd paint over 28 year old paint. Strip the whole exterior and start with epoxy as your base-well worth the effort IMO. Bob
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:10 PM
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Hey badbob, let's see some pic of your projects.
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Old 02-14-2007, 03:36 PM
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MY 2 cents: I used etching primer once. Will never use it again. I have also used epoxy primer, a little more money but well worth it. The epoxy primer bonded VERY well with the bare metal, whereas the etching primer could be peeled off like a thin coat of rubber. Couldnt feather it very well either.
As far as painting over the original paint, unless the paint is spider-webbed, cracked, etc., I wouldnt hesitate to paint over it, but I would seal it first.
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:22 AM
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Thanks Men, Very good info. I think I've got a handle on it now.
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Old 02-15-2007, 02:05 PM
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First off, just so I don't get accused of hijacking this thread. I would use epoxy primer it has superior adhesion and seals the surface from moisture, what more can you ask from a primer. I would also epoxy the bare metal as soon as the metal work is done and apply the filler over the epoxy, this way if the paint is chipped later and the filler absorbs water it still won't reach the metal and cause rust. Whether to strip the old paint or not is a question of what you are doing with the car, if it's going to be a driver and the old paint is solid I would sand it good and seal the entire car with thinned epoxy before spraying color. If you are looking for a full restoration then strip the old paint. OK, now I got that out of the way...

Countilaw I see you have what looks like a 39 or 40 Plymouth truck, my next project is a 39 Plymouth truck and I have a 331 Hemi just waiting to drop in. Is yours a resto or a hot rod?
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Old 02-15-2007, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countilaw
Hey badbob, let's see some pic of your projects.
There are a lot of people on her that cannot post pictures and do know Bob is one of them. Cars your doing for customers, even though they have been in magazines the customer may not want his car posted with out his permission.

Another reason is if the car is a high dollar car to be sold, the new owner may not want someone to pull up a stripped rusted body picture that was step one of the body restoration.

When someone pays six figures for a car too buy or have it restored, whatever story he wants to make up for that car is his business, be it the truth or not.

A good example is I did a car a few years back and someone had left a bag of fertilizer in the trunk for 10 or so years while in storage and did not know it. Well the car has been long sold and next time the public sees it it will be at a Barrett Jackson and most likely a million dollar sale, last thing anyone wants to see on that car is the missing trunk pan. That would be grounds for a killing on a car like that.

Last edited by BarryK; 02-15-2007 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 02-15-2007, 03:35 PM
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I'll have to start taking photos again, I've been lax on photos for the past 3-4 years. I agree with Barry on having to be selective on some of the rarer cars-no owner with an interest on value wants his tub shown with evidence of extensive repairs. Many cars nowadays are built off of just VIN tags and paperwork. I haven't worked on million dollar cars yet-but I'd like to...

countylaw, here's a few straggler photos I found for your interest:







[URL=http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp037438hk.jpg][IMG]




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