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Old 06-09-2008, 09:27 PM
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epoxy or lacquer primer?

I am about to start the bodywork on my '67 chevelle project but am getting conflicting info when reseaching primer. This is my first shot at real bodywork and restoration. Most of the posts I have found here swear by the epoxy primer. Though I have a close friend who has used lacquer primer on all the cars he has painted. I have searched the site but cannot find much info on lacquer primer. (even with modern BC/CC paint) Which one is better and what are the advantages/disadvantages of each one? Thanks

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Old 06-09-2008, 09:50 PM
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primer.........

Hi,it will rust thru the lacquer primer, not with the epoxy primer,nuff said. dont waste your money on lacquer primer...
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:51 PM
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I would not use lacquer primer at all, It is old tech. Using epoxy is good to put over bare striped metal or to go over an old finish, Also you can put on after you do your body work, Also some put on epoxy before they do their body work. And then follow up with an good 2K primer. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:45 PM
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Don't even have lacquer, or it's cousin 1k spot putty, in the shop! There is just no place for that junk with todays paints and it caused me nothing but trouble until I learned better. Lacquer, and that crap lacquer based 1k putty, will shrink for weeks or even months after it is applied with the results showing through in the topcoat. Besides water will go through lacquer primer like it is not even there causing rusting under the paint, epoxy on the other hand will seal and waterproof the surface and leave a solid foundation for fillers and primer/surfacers to be applied to.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:35 AM
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Hey Oldred, I'm with you on the benefits of epoxy primer. This is not to start further controversy; just a question. Does epoxy primer come in black? If so, would it not be much better for those who insist on primer for a finished paintjob to use, rather than regular primer, rustoleum, artist acrylics, water colors or other cheapo junk?

I also agree about the magazine articles. Years ago, Popular Mechanics did a story about 'back yard' rust repair. They showed a rocker panel with a hole rusted in it, maybe 3 by 8 inches. They wadded up newspaper and stuffed it into the hole and then filled it up with bondo. Can you imagine how much more damage that was caused once the paper soaked up water and held it there?
Another instance was where we had an old work truck at our shop that had some rust around the wheel wells. A local kid just starting out in body work wanted a sign, so we traded off the sign for the rust repair. Truck looked Ok when it came back, but within 6 months it was starting to bubble thru. I asked him how he fixed it, and he told me he was taught to do it this way: Bend back the rusted edges into the opening, fill the hole with expanding foam insulation. When it cures, sand it down, put on a coat of bondo and paint.

If you're thinking about it....don't do it. That foam soaks up water badly, and it will rust thru quickly.
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:05 AM
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There are epoxy primers available in black..works fine for me..And the cost is reasonable..

Sam
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:00 AM
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Don't epoxy primers tend to chalk when exposed to sunlight? I have been using black epoxy to do engine compartments and other areas where a simi-flat black is desired but none of these would have any significant exposure to UV from the sun. I am thinking epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight would need to be top coated, may be wrong though.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for the responses. I'll definately go with the epoxy primer over the lacquer. How many coats do I need over the bare metal and can I put my bodyfiller over it and use epoxy primer over that as a sealer? Can somebody give me a rough estimate of how much I'll use? (all outside, trunk, engine bay, door jambs) (should I do all inside too? ) Thanks again.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1_performance
Thanks for the responses. I'll definately go with the epoxy primer over the lacquer. How many coats do I need over the bare metal and can I put my bodyfiller over it and use epoxy primer over that as a sealer? Can somebody give me a rough estimate of how much I'll use? (all outside, trunk, engine bay, door jambs) (should I do all inside too? ) Thanks again.


I would never ever use Lac. anything anymore it is old outdated tech and the lac today is not the same as back"in the days"

I use about three quarts to a gallon of black epoxy on a car. I put three coats on and let it sit for three days( after all metal work is done ) the i sand with 80 or 180 for the filler ,yes right over the epoxy. After the body work is done i re epoxy prime to seal the body work but I let is flash as per the paint manufacturer instructions and hit it with some Grey 2k urethane filler primer. I block and prime twice maybe three times 2k prime after each blocking and I wait a week between priming for good cure of the material. (Depending on how straight you get it up front will dictate how much primer you will use to block the rest straight).This uses about i gallon per prime on a large car. Hope this helps a little. JMO Tim
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:11 PM
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Spray out some lacquer primer and let it dry for several days,Take a rag wet with URETHANE reducer and wipe on it and SEE what you get.
What do the current paint lines use for reducer?
URETHANE.
Just imagine what that will "do" to the lacquer primer after a couple of coats.

I use SPI's Black epoxy and it builds nice after 2 coats.After cleaning the bare metal good with their waterbourn g&wr,2 coats and 24-48hr,Block with 80gt, do filler work,another 2 coats,24-48hr, and 150-180,another 2 coats and most times,4-600 wet and paint it. I've all but quit using 2K primer after using SPI's epoxy. It sands super nice and it sprays out semi glossy and this makes for a nice guide coat as when you start sanding,it SHOWS nice and goes flat in gloss.
It mixs 1:1 so you get 2 gal sprayable but depending on how much leveling you need,you might need more for just using it.
It can also be reduced 10-20% with a quality urethane reducer,I prefer SPI's, for a slicker finish or more for a sealer. EXCELLENT product.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Spray out some lacquer primer and let it dry for several days,Take a rag wet with URETHANE reducer and wipe on it and SEE what you get.
I did not have a problem with urethane topcoat over acrylic hi-build. I can't use the epoxy primers as I seem to get sick for a day or so...even with the recommended NEW mask sealed in plastic from the PPG paint dept at the auto store. So, I am forced to use acrylic, IF I can find it. I need to do one of my cars in epoxy primer due to it being stripped to bare metal; I hope to get a neighbors moonlighting shop to do it.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J
I did not have a problem with urethane topcoat over acrylic hi-build. I can't use the epoxy primers as I seem to get sick for a day or so...even with the recommended NEW mask sealed in plastic from the PPG paint dept at the auto store. So, I am forced to use acrylic, IF I can find it. I need to do one of my cars in epoxy primer due to it being stripped to bare metal; I hope to get a neighbors moonlighting shop to do it.
So do I get sick from that stuff I but my fresh air system fixed that problem (for only ~$425 - yikes) and it's also great for those iso based clear coats that make me even sicker. EPOXY - it's the ONLY bare steel coating that will seal and protect .

Dave W
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Don't epoxy primers tend to chalk when exposed to sunlight? I have been using black epoxy to do engine compartments and other areas where a simi-flat black is desired but none of these would have any significant exposure to UV from the sun. I am thinking epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight would need to be top coated, may be wrong though.
I would say it should be top coated..however I have seen cars that were exposed to sun for 2 or more years and yes the epoxy did chalk but then all it took was a good scrubbing with a red scuff pad and then carry on with paint..Much easier than going thru all the rust removal all over again..

Sam
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
I would say it should be top coated..however I have seen cars that were exposed to sun for 2 or more years and yes the epoxy did chalk but then all it took was a good scrubbing with a red scuff pad and then carry on with paint..Much easier than going thru all the rust removal all over again..

Sam

Just try leaving lacquer primed metal unprotected for 2 or more years!
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:55 PM
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I use laq in my shop only as a guide coat for wetsanding. I mix a little tint in it and apply it like a guide coat then wetsand it with 400. That's about all I use it for. Most of the time as far as primers go, I use either epoxy or etch. Depending on what is being repaired. Example is welded on new quarter, no bodywork needed, I'd just put down etch and then sealer and b/c. If I had filler then I'd epoxy it. Laq and b/c aren't the best of friends. If your not careful you will get blisters, pealing, and all sort of other troubles.
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