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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:44 PM
GMW GMW is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
I was thinking, with your system you would get sick to your stomach if you saw some of the smaller systems overseas!
Some of the most creative is how some dry the metal after dipping
before epoxy is applied.
There are still a couple of place actually spraying the epoxy I know of one and the ICI guy said he has a 1/2 dozen in assembly line fashion.
Barry
Barry,

I would love to hear of some of the things you have seen and are seeing with regards to overseas lines/equipment. Do your travels ever bring you near Evansville, IN? If so lunch is on me, free plant tour included.

I'm heading up a project right now regarding the ways we design our equipment and the features we include. Any info on what my competitors are doing would be a real plus.

Did my customer service guy ever get you any info on batch ovens?

Greg

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2004, 03:00 PM
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Batch oven.
Never got anything, but its been a 12 hour job trying to buy equipment anyway, so no hurry.

I'm never in any place overseas with an automated system like yours. So unfortunately can't help you.
I'm there by mistake, an email wanting to know if I could make a batch dry at 250 Degrees about four years ago.
ICI and S&W were just slow to respond, funny, I laughed off the email and when he replied 20,000 gallons, I got serious.
Rest have been referred by this guy but were talking people with Manual dipping racks and 5,000-15,000 tanks at the biggest.
We will do lunch sometime, first part of year will be spending a lot of time in Canada but once that is done, I will let you know.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2004, 05:13 PM
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Re: Barry,

Quote:
Originally posted by red65mustang
You say ALL the far east mfgr's are using electro-deposition dip coating, how do you explain the bare steel I found all along an epoxied fender panel edge when I separated the panel from the support frame.

My guess is the slick steel fender was sprayed with epoxy, the hidden edge didn't get coated.

So how about that 2002 Ford Focus quarter panel that I installed a few weeks ago. It came with part of the back panel which I did not need. When I seprated the two panels the metal was bare!!

How about when I removed a door skin from a 99 Merc minivan. The bottom edge was bare as was the entire flange where the skin folded over the shell.

So by your description Ford is spraying panels instead of dipping??
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2004, 07:09 AM
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Sevt_chevelle

I didn't say a Ford fender, I have repeatedly referenced cheap IMPORTED early Mustang panels.

GMW wrote an excellent, accurate description of what an e-coat line is and how it works.

Appreciate that the part is SUBMERGED IN THE RO/DI WATER TANK to accept the coating. A fender is totally submerged so the water and resin will get into the panel/support seam.
So if there is no coating on the almost no crimp panel to support edge (the whole length of the support and inside the rolled edge),but epoxy is on all the exposed surface, I suspect the slick steel fender was sprayed, not e-coated.

What's on a Merc door skin, a Ford Focus qtr, were they e-coated?

Call Ford and ask, best advise I can give you.

E-coat lines are everywhere, it's used for a huge variety of mfg applications (HVAC sheet metal, appliances, lawn equipment, boat hitches, the list is forever) Find a local mfgr with an e-coat line, go see one operate.

Last edited by red65mustang; 12-06-2004 at 03:59 PM.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2004, 06:18 PM
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Barry,

Wrong, I don't just make things up as I go along as you said.

For further information on acrylic based e-coat and "hybrid" e-coats automotive use, PPG asked me to have you call them. The Pittsburg phone # is 412-434-3131.

Barry, how can you make the claim that epoxy e-coat has the best impact resistance when you don't know anything about acrylic e-coats. Do the research, then write the post.

My comments and questions about the $25-$50,000 e-coat line cost for "huge volumes". Get real Barry, I sold the PLC controls systems for e-coat lines (Eagle Signal Controls), I do know what the equipment costs, it seems you don't. If you had written $250,000- $500,000 for a used huge volumes e-coating line, fine with me.

First you write the far east mfgr's do huge volumes, they all e-coat.
Then you write it's small plants with crude methods fighting for a small market.
Then you write some are spraying epoxy (not e-coating) on the slick steel.

I call that saving face and back peddling real fast. They don't all e-coat or e-coat correctly do they?

"A can that didn't get a label", that's your explaination of why the fender seam was bare steel? Barry, that answer IS" way over my head". Guess I'll have "play around on the internet" to understand that one.

The best one you have written yet......you say it's better to dip a slick steel panel in a tank of epoxy than sand it first and spray it with epoxy.

You do amaze me, that means every paint manufacturer's instructions for coating slick bare steel with epoxy are wrong. Nobody needs an e-coat line, just dip the slick steel in the epoxy for the best coating bond integrity possible.

Bye Barry, have a good life

Last edited by red65mustang; 12-06-2004 at 09:56 AM.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2004, 09:58 AM
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Son of a gun!

I just tested a fender for e-coat received from Golden Legion Automotive Group Taiwan.

First look, 12" long runs on the inside, not a good sign.

Second look, removed the screwed on "mud flap" on the headlight bucket, only found bare metal where it was screwed down very tight (would have been better if e-coated seperate and assembled).

Put a heavy dab of Jasco stripper on it, waited 40 minutes, no change.

Ran my finger thru the stripper, coating didn't budge.

Wiped off the Jasco with a paper towel, coating is STILL bonded to the steel. Yeah, the surface is rough, the stripper had some effect.

Scrubbed the stripper area with coarse steel wool, there's STILL some black coating on the steel!

My conclusion, very probably e-coated with a very good epoxy. The runs are from the rinse tanks?

So now I can retrack what I wrote in the very begining, change "never found" good ecoat.......

That fender coating will not be stripped!

Last edited by red65mustang; 12-09-2004 at 10:11 AM.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 05:01 AM
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Re: Son of a gun!

My conclusion, very probably e-coated with a very good epoxy. The runs are from the rinse tanks?

So now I can retrack what I wrote in the very begining, change "never found" good ecoat.......

That fender coating will not be stripped! [/B][/QUOTE]
******************************************

I will say this about the China and Twain manufacturing from the little experience I have had over there.
Yes GMW's automated e-coat line is in a different league than what these people are doing.
But what they do, they try to over kill! Some of these factory's have old metal dip tanks some are cement none of them have heat for the tank as required with the big system.
But the most important thing is how much pride they take in the cleaning of the panel (acid dipping and rinsing)
They may get a 12" run in the epoxy but I will say the metal underneath is perfect!
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 07:16 AM
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Barry, I do agree

I probably should have titled that fender post:
"example of a great e-coating bond on an import part".

I should have added, I did the stripper test on the inner lower rear of the fender panel. The area that rusts first and worst.

My guess, Golden Legion does have good e-coat equipment and more important, their people know how to use it correctly.

Finding (roughly) only 30% bare metal/70% still black after scrubbing the hell out of the stripper test area with steel wool....wow......those folks know how to e-coat!!!

The 3 or 4 rinse (?) runs from the support down the inside of the top half of the fender panel, I would tell them DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!

I want that fantastic bond integrity on the rust critical area.

End of story?

.................................................. .................................................. ...

Barry, GMW,

Golden Legion does have a web site in Chinese. So far I know they make fenders, e-coated radiator supports, gas tanks.

Prospect for epoxy and more e-coat equipment?
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 07:33 AM
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Re: Barry, I do agree

Quote:
Originally posted by red65mustang

Barry, GMW,

Golden Legion does have a web site in Chinese. So far I know they make fenders, e-coated radiator supports, gas tanks.

Prospect for epoxy and more e-coat equipment? [/B]
*******************************************

Your OK!
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 08:15 AM
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Thanks Barry

I WISH I was OK.

I'll bet you've got the Chinese/english translator on your computer.

How about a short summary of the Golden Legion website.

From the little I could find, I suspect they could be the "American Designers Mfg/$1B Canadian parent company " of Taiwan.
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Old 12-11-2004, 08:21 AM
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I have French and Spanish. I have always used a translator but a lot of the owners of these places speak English.

You can download from mircosolf or from Idiomax, I think both are free.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 08:29 AM
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Nah!

I don't want that huge Chinese translater on my computer either.

Already have German, French, they don't translate technical words worth a hoot.

I'll try a new thread post
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Old 12-11-2004, 08:41 AM
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Thats exactly why when I go there i hire a live one to work with me. Its all I can do to speak and write english, so I don't need to be referring to someones momma is a bad way and think I'm saying something else!
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