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Old 03-30-2006, 10:05 PM
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epoxy over etch

Hello all,
I am going to be working on a good friend of mine 52 chevy truck. He is going to sand blast the cab and frame before he brings it to me. He was asking what he should protect the bare sheetmetal with before he gets it done and brings it to me. It could be 2-3 weeks time from start to finish as he only works on it when he has a little free time. NAPA sell some self etch spray can primer that would be convinient for him to spray on the metal but would that be enough? We are planning on using Martin Epoxy primer on the truck and the etch would only be to protect it till he gets it here. I figured I would have to DA it with 80 grit to smooth it up before shooting the epoxy so most of it will be sanded off but some may still be left. My question is, can you use epoxy over etch primer, or would there be something better? Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

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Old 03-31-2006, 04:45 AM
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Your going back wards with the Aerosol can of etch.
First unless its a blabbered can there is no acid it and if it is or not its just not a good thing to use.

Do yourself a favor and coat it with their epoxy instead.
The job will last a whole lot longer.
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Old 03-31-2006, 04:46 AM
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Epoxy primer is not suppose to be used over etch primer.
Don't use the etch at all, once you have it sanded to bright metal
epoxy alone is the best choice. It has to be very clean though.
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Old 03-31-2006, 05:32 AM
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Your friend could brush a coat of epoxy on after it is blasted if he doesn't have access to spray equipment, then when you get it 2 weeks later just sand the epoxy and spray on two more coats. Like JC said-just make sure he has the metal cleaned well before the epoxy goes on. Bob
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Old 03-31-2006, 07:14 AM
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If he has no access to a paint gun set up, you could use one of these.
HVLP

They will work and he can use it for house work later.

I don't recommend using it for a complete paint job but for something quick and easier than a brush,it will do the job.

Just thought it might help. Otherwise,Grab a brush.
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Old 03-31-2006, 09:45 PM
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Uh oh. So what if some dum-dum took over a year to strip his car to bare metal .......doing one fender at a time,....... and then used "SEM" brand aresol spray ETCH primer to cover all that bright shiny metal (to keep it from rusting ) thinking it was the right thing to do ?

He wants to hear a straight up answer even if it hurts.
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Old 04-01-2006, 12:16 AM
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Well................... It depends on which Martin Senour epoxy primer you will be using. Although their epoxy primers "can" be used over bare metal, they recommend that some of them be used over self etching primer to "realize improved system performance"

Personally I would stay away from the spray can stuff though.

Go to www.martinsenour-autopaint.com and click on reference materials then click on pds catalog to get all the info you need on the products you will be using.
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Old 04-01-2006, 12:40 AM
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Read #2 under surface prep for this Martin Senour epoxy primer

Or look under substrates for their budget line of epoxy primer
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2stroketurbo
Uh oh. So what if some dum-dum took over a year to strip his car to bare metal .......doing one fender at a time,....... and then used "SEM" brand aresol spray ETCH primer to cover all that bright shiny metal (to keep it from rusting ) thinking it was the right thing to do ?

He wants to hear a straight up answer even if it hurts.
'

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can't really say as it depends on a lot of factors but it now becomes a question of when will it fail?
Ist day out in full sun? Guess not, as its now a year old.
10 years from now or in next week, no one can predict and here again it comes down to what you did how you did it and set time.

Its the same as using a lacquer primer, may never have a problem or may blow up when you apply second coat of clear, you just never know and thats where the problem comes in.
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:45 AM
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i went to bare metal on some panels on my 61, use rattle can,paint job is 5 years old , still good. maybe i living on barrowed time, but its just a street car, not show
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:56 AM
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epoxy over etch and confused

I keep reading a dupont P-sheet and it says"epoxy should be sprayed over properly etched bare metal". Does this mean an acid wash is ok but dupont etch primer is a no-no??? So what etching agent should be used before epoxy on bare metal?
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acsteve
I keep reading a dupont P-sheet and it says"epoxy should be sprayed over properly etched bare metal". Does this mean an acid wash is ok but dupont etch primer is a no-no??? So what etching agent should be used before epoxy on bare metal?
Good question ACSTEVE, ....the very same question I have as well.......

However, I fear there are too many variables to get a concrete "cut and dry" answer. I have a '58 DKW that had original paint sunburn through just on the tops of fenders and horizontal surfaces. These thin sunburned spots surface rusted slightly. The original german paint was impressively tough, very hard to remove. I want to do a great paint job so I stripped the whole car to bare metal. I assumed the rusty spots, although slight, should be treated. After all these horizontal surfaces are the most visible. I metal prepped with Jasco "metal prep" acid to kill the rust, sanded, and cleaned again, and then sprayed with "SEM" 20.$ per can ETCH primer aresol with the intention of sanding over again before epoxy priming. There are very small rust pits where the sunburned spots were. I know epoxy will fill these. I feel this is very good Etch primer that I have applied, however, I just don't have enough bodywork expirience to know if this procedure is correct and will give the great results I want.

I don't want to build a mansion on a straw foundation .....

I am faced with a decison.

1) Keep going as I am and disregard some valuable advice

2) Remove Etch primer to bare metal and start over


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Old 04-01-2006, 09:57 PM
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Just my .02
Dupont is based around refinishing and NEW bare metal is to be taken into consideration as well as time involved. IF you have a sanded or blasted CLEAN surface to spray on,Epoxy alone should be just fine.You got a new panel and refinishers don't waste time sanding a new panel,need the etch for grab and epoxy for corrosion. Lot's easier to spray than sand.

I've used Nason Full Poxy for years over sanded/blasted clean metal and had O problems.
Your paying $20.00 for a can of spray bomb 1K primer?

SEM makes some great products and I'd have no issue using it but come on,For a little more $$ you can have twice the protection and a better product.

Epoxy is a GREAT sealer and as long as the etch you've shot already is on GOOD metal,Just shoot over it and learn a lesson unless you just want to "feel" better about it.
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Old 04-02-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Me
Just my .02
Dupont is based around refinishing and NEW bare metal is to be taken into consideration as well as time involved. IF you have a sanded or blasted CLEAN surface to spray on,Epoxy alone should be just fine.You got a new panel and refinishers don't waste time sanding a new panel,need the etch for grab and epoxy for corrosion. Lot's easier to spray than sand.

I've used Nason Full Poxy for years over sanded/blasted clean metal and had O problems.
Your paying $20.00 for a can of spray bomb 1K primer?

SEM makes some great products and I'd have no issue using it but come on,For a little more $$ you can have twice the protection and a better product.

Epoxy is a GREAT sealer and as long as the etch you've shot already is on GOOD metal,Just shoot over it and learn a lesson unless you just want to "feel" better about it.
Thanks Bee4me, I appreciate the encouraging words. Been around cars my whole life, but, painting my car is entirely new to me. Lesson well learned. I want to do the "BEST" work I possibly can. Listening to the kid behind the salescounter @ the auto parts store may not have been best idea for the aresol ETCH primer. Here's some pictures of my car. The green primer is the "SEM" Etch,..... covered the car as I went......

I bought a quart of PPG knock off epoxy primer to try on the trunk lid. Is there any epoxy primer brand I should stay away from?

Thanks, Mark
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Old 04-02-2006, 10:17 AM
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I don't know about brands to stay away from. I do know that the only epoxy that I use is SPI (Southern Polyurethanes).
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

It is a great product to use, and there is plenty of product support, if you need information. There is even a site that is devoted to their products, although not affiliated with the company, (WWW.spi.forumup.org). The price is considerably better than anything else that I have found also. I personally like the black, as it will show very quickly any areas that need work.

Hope this helps.

Aaron
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