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Epoxy over lead filler

14K views 23 replies 9 participants last post by  tech69 
#1 ·
I am stripping a car to the bare metal and priming with epoxy primer (DPLF to be exact). The car has the original lead seam sealer and I have not noticed any mention in the spec sheets of the epoxy working or not working when applied over lead. Do I need to take any special precautions to apply the epoxy over the lead or just treat it like steel? Thanks in advance for any info.

Kevin
 
#3 ·
Lead is a major problem with restorers. Some restorers because of past problems grind the lead out and replace with glass.
I hate that!

The reason they had problems in past is because of the following applications:
Treating with ANY acid.
Using acid etch primer.
Using lacquer primer.
Using 2K primer.
Using DTM primer.
None of the above will last long term.

1)DA the the lead with 80 grit, just to smooth.

2) wash with waterborne or solvent type wax and grease remover. Let set at least one hour before applying your epoxy.

3) Apply one coat of epoxy and let set 30 minutes before the second coat is applied. Do Not puddle or try to fill with the epoxy.
 
#4 ·
I think a good thing is to cut the lead a little low before the epoxy is applied. The reason for this is many times the lead is high, for some reason the factory paddled it out and then kinda left a "patch" and didn't cut it down nice and flat. So if you epoxy over that, and you plan on making the car real nice, you will have to cut the lead and end up with the same bare lead.

So, if you check it and cut it down with 120 grit if needed. Then after epoxy you can level it out nice with a skim coat of polyester if need be.
 
#12 ·
wasn't it a month ago when you were on the same boat as I was on whether or not to use filler over lead or epoxy first and wasn't it Barry who helped us out on that? Good thing you've been working on handling lead since then cause that process sounds great ...even though I haven't had time within the past month to try it as you had.:welcome:
 
#6 ·
Barry, Ive read in some of your past posts that paint companies are NOW wanting 80 grit for epoxy and 2K urethane primers.
What companies are doing this switch??

In the past the grit range has been around 150 to 240.

Ive been a big PPG fan for many years but now work at a shop using Dupont products. I do metal work but have to prime the work myself then send off to paint. We use 4609 or 4906, I believe.
I finish off the filler with 180 and feather edge the surrounding paint with 320
 
#7 · (Edited)
sevt_chevelle said:
Barry, Ive read in some of your past posts that paint companies are NOW wanting 80 grit for epoxy and 2K urethane primers.
What companies are doing this switch??

In the past the grit range has been around 150 to 240.

Ive been a big PPG fan for many years but now work at a shop using Dupont products. I do metal work but have to prime the work myself then send off to paint. We use 4609 or 4906, I believe.
I finish off the filler with 180 and feather edge the surrounding paint with 320
*************************************************
Body filler or 2K primers its not an issue.
I have changed my literature and I do know ***** is going to and one of the **** guys at the Radtec meeting said they were.
Reason is a letter was sent out by one of the epoxy resin company's about two months ago acknowledging some problems.
In short (I don't have letter here) i will try and sum up.

Metal coatings are changing such as high strength and different types of coating for rust protection from the OEM. What is happening is let say you sand with 180 the epoxy may not get into the finer scratches and adhesion is lost and corrosion protection is limited because of air trap-page that will lead to delamination.
Compounding this problem is the voc laws. The high solids resins add to the problem even more so than the finer scratches.
Also noted in the letter, it has been assumed in the past epoxy adhesion was 45-50% charge +/- as all items have a charge except things like TPO, TEO etc. Now they feel the charge rate is in the 35-45 % range.
Another problem (this is my opinion) is the so many different types of sand paper being used. The cheaper ones break down faster and if not changed enough the metal almost looks buffed with scratches.
There is no reason not to use 80, in past its been said on here that 80 is to rough but I have never (IN BARE METAL) seen an 80 scratch that was not covered with one coat of epoxy. Now in body filler or primer thats a different subject all together.

edit:
I deleted the names of the other company's as, really not my place to say, but you will see over next year different procedures being recommended.
What your using-go to 80!
 
#11 ·
*************************************************
Body filler or 2K primers its not an issue.
I have changed my literature and I do know ***** is going to and one of the **** guys at the Radtec meeting said they were.
Reason is a letter was sent out by one of the epoxy resin company's about two months ago acknowledging some problems.
In short (I don't have letter here) i will try and sum up.

Metal coatings are changing such as high strength and different types of coating for rust protection from the OEM. What is happening is let say you sand with 180 the epoxy may not get into the finer scratches and adhesion is lost and corrosion protection is limited because of air trap-page that will lead to delamination.
Compounding this problem is the voc laws. The high solids resins add to the problem even more so than the finer scratches.
Also noted in the letter, it has been assumed in the past epoxy adhesion was 45-50% charge +/- as all items have a charge except things like TPO, TEO etc. Now they feel the charge rate is in the 35-45 % range.
Another problem (this is my opinion) is the so many different types of sand paper being used. The cheaper ones break down faster and if not changed enough the metal almost looks buffed with scratches.
There is no reason not to use 80, in past its been said on here that 80 is to rough but I have never (IN BARE METAL) seen an 80 scratch that was not covered with one coat of epoxy. Now in body filler or primer thats a different subject all together.

edit:
I deleted the names of the other company's as, really not my place to say, but you will see over next year different procedures being recommended.
What your using-go to 80!
I suppose you could thin out the epoxy slightly if you're worried about penetration but it should be ok using standard amount of reducer. I have had great result's with fusion just following the maker's instructions.
 
#9 ·
epoxy over lead, what about bronze?

Is there any problem with future corrosion (mayb from dissimilar metals) or adhesion if any rust pinholes are brazed closed, sanded and painted with DP40 epoxy primer? Is there an accepted solvent for removing the flux, or does that have to be removed by chipping and sanding?
 
#15 ·
Update on the original poster:

In 2005 a year after he posted this question, the car was finished and sold.
Two years later in 2007 he retired after a long career as head engineer of GE’s missile development program.

He took up snow skiing and traveled the world skiing every mountain he could for six years.
Never been to Los Angles before, so he took his skis and went looking for a hill to ski, created a mudslide and ended up in the road, sad to say he was hit by a Prius and was trapped underneath because he was wet, he was electrocuted and passed.
May he rest in peace.
 
#17 ·
Henry, I am terribly confused here, what in the living hell are you saying? This thread is 9 years old. This advice that you have highlighted that I said is almost 9 years old! What in the hell are you talking about?

I have heard others complain about someone telling someone on a forum something they recently learned. What could be wrong with this is beyond me. If the information is correct, I don't care if a clerk at the super market knows it and passes it on, if the information is correct, what exactly is the problem? It's like when you asked about your gas door problem on the Chrysler 300. I explained to you how the position of the hinge pin was so important and explained the geometry of this location to you. In your video just a week later you are explaining it using the exact words I did sounding like it was out of your head! Now, I could care less as you were passing it on so others could learn. I am all for it, but for YOU who first off says I know nothing would use what I told you, funny stuff. But for you who has went off about that subject just as you are right now to do it, that is just too friggin funny!

You are cracking me up Henry, funny stuff. Just do your videos and help people as you are capable to do on these forums and lighten up on your bizarre personal attacks. Life is too damn easy, you are going to blow your friggin heart up like a 305 on nitrous, geeez.

Brian
 
#23 ·
Henry, is the information correct or not? I feel very sad for anyone who would have their butt hurt because some added information. Again let me ask you, is the information correct or not?

Brian
 
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