Is the era of the fiberglass custom coming to an end? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Hotrodders' Lounge
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:36 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,575
Thanked 1,328 Times in 1,152 Posts
It's no "argument" in my opinion, it's simply what different people like. I personally don't want a repro body ,but would love to build a T bucket with a glass body so go figure.

There are piles of repro body parts out there to save the original steel bodies, where does it stop being original and become repro?

How about a Fiat altered drag car I would love to do one of those too, and it would be glass. So there is a gray area in my head too.

But many people there simply isn't an issue at all, a car body is a car body and if it looks like a 32 Ford coupe and but was made last week out of fiberglass it is exactly the same to them and real, as if it was "real" steel. So there are many views on the subject.

I don't think fiberglass or steel repro bodies are going away, ever. Companies come and go for a number of different reasons is how I see it. This custom "37 Ford" body we are talking about has either ran it's course and people are sick of it or the company simply folded do to poor management or they simply retired who knows. But if it is gone for ever you can bet in a few decades someone will be dying to own a "retro" custom body and pay big bucks for one.

Brian

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2013, 03:10 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 312
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
"Is the era of the fiberglass custom coming to an end?"

Of course it is, fiberglass is just too 1950's to be used today. Too expensive for materials and skilled labor, too easy to screw it up, uses too much space to store, ect. Why do you think GM switched over to SMC years ago.

Nanocellulose is cheaper, lighter, stronger, better, easier to produce, safer to use and store, ect. It will be hitting the market shortly then the 'economics of scale' will work for nano and against fiberglass. Yes, nano can even be made from 'pond scum', blue/green algae purpose grown at a production plant.

Welcome to the 21st century.

nanocellulose
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2013, 07:49 PM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,319
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,451
Thanked 695 Times in 509 Posts
Yeah... Seems to be heading to a steel is real thing... Seen this coming a mile away..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:50 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 2,387
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 731
Thanked 259 Times in 231 Posts
One of my friends and I argued over this last night. He's never build a classic car, but hes bought several. He's insistent on 'old school' and 'if it aint steel, it aint real' so, to Brian's point, does that make a Dearborn Deuce 'real' and a Downs car 'unreal'?

I casually reminded him that corvettes, kaiser darrins, and Berkleys to name a few are OEM 'glass cars; AND the 'glass T-bucket IS 'old-school.' Glass T-buckets ARE retro.

Its different strokes for different folks. I like a steel car just fine, I appreciate the history and age and craftsmanship that comes with it. However, I also know that building a quality 'glass bodied car has its own challenges and I can certainly respect a well executed build and design. Neither one is easier, or even cheaper...just different.

I think the 'problem' with the 'glass cars is that they tend to follow hot rod/street rod trends. After about 10 years and 100 grand, you're still left with a '37 ford ish' that is hard to title, teal, has grey tweed, billet rims and a digital dash. Maybe thats what you always wanted, and YOU LOVE IT, but its going to be a hard sell without re-inventing it. And some of these cutting edge designs are hard if not almost impossible financially to re-invent into something current and fresh.

Did we ever think the humble T-bucket would still be soldiering on? There has to be a million of em it seems; and they're STILL churning out new kits.

It wont die; the core group, the innovators, will give glass cars a facelift (carbon fiber or nano tech) and it'll come back for 20yrs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:19 AM
TucsonJay's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 854
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 124 Times in 95 Posts
I think that loving 'glass cars takes some experience with both kinds of bodies. I've spent almost fifty years working on both.

You haven't lived until you chase a dent on a metal car ALL THE WAY DOWN THE QUARTER PANEL! Or you've struggled to make hand-made patch panels that look like the original shape of the car! In the end, what you have in a car like that, is one that LOOKS virgin, but you know that underneath it is a "quilt work" of patches and body filler!

On the other had, fiberglass will NEVER EVER rust out, and is very easily repaired to it's original strength and shape. You won't need anything other than saws and sanding supplies. But you won't need a wire feed, torches or metal working equipment... and with a little research, you can do it your self!

Another added benefit is the ability to easily modify it... or even produce your own design from nothing.

If you can't mentally get past the material it's made of... and move on to enjoying it, then you'd better just chose steel and the problems that go with it. That way you can tell people "it's a steel body". Which won't change the way it looks even one little bit.

My advise to go steel would be depending on the project itself. Not just a general statement.

In the end, 'glass is much better to work with, and to own... steel is better if it is a car with historic significance, and the sale price would be greatly affected.

Do you build your cars to "own"... or to "sell"???

In the end, it is whatever you personally prefer. You should satisfy yourself, so this hobby is more fun for you. Not try to build what everyone else "approves of".

That is why the cars of recent years are so boringly "generic". Because everybody had become too aware of public opinion. The hot rodders of the past were rebels!!! They did what they pleased, and if someone was shocked or disapproved... that was even better!!! :-)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:24 AM
Mitchman's Avatar
Grand Master of the Universe
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 613
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 73 Times in 63 Posts
@TusconJay... Well stated. I hankered after one of those '37-'40 bodies for a few years, but when it came time to build something, I went for the classic '34 chopped coupe. It isn't one of Henry's (I looked for a year for one to re-do) but it isn't a fantasy - almost a '37... not quite a '40 either - car either. A tight, well designed 'glass repro will do nicely, thank you.

On the turn-table at SEMA they are stunning, but they aren't 'real'... so how do you know if it's been done 'right'? The owner is the only one who knows, everyone else has to assume he got what he wanted with a slammed, chopped, sloped, '40 front end on a '37 body show car.

I get a kick out of seeing one of those $100K marvels at a show... perfect, but without any weather stripping around the doors. You know it's a trailer queen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:17 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 312
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
"It wont die; the core group, the innovators, will give glass cars a facelift (carbon fiber or nano tech) and it'll come back for 20yrs "

The largest user of fiberglass materials is the boating industry that crashed with the housing bust and has not fully recovered. This stuff has a shelf-life so they have reduced production and raised prices, killing the bottom line for small companies.

Carbon fiber and Kevlar ramped-up production for the Boeing Dreamliner so they are both getting cheap(er). They still have all the production problems of fiberglass (too much space and labor cost).

Nano-tech can be injection molded, eliminating the labor costs and production problems. In all likelihood it can be 3D printed for prototypes and small parts.

Nano-tech is GREEN and FOREIGN OIL INDEPENDENT so tax credits, tax breaks and funding are politically motivated and guaranteed. With no downside, too many upsides and virtually unlimited, well funded customers, nano-tech should be commonplace within 5 years. The ultimate 'bodyman in a can' so to speak.

Kit cars will be here forever, they'll just be different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:20 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,575
Thanked 1,328 Times in 1,152 Posts
The funny thing about the whole "steel is real" line is that was from a time that there were no steel bodies or even fenders being made! Back in seventies I presume is when that term came about. Now, it would be more like "original is real", a Brookville roadster is no more a "real" Model A Ford than a Polyform fiberglass one, it's just just a more accurate copy. One can't even say anything about the "quality" because that is an opinion. Where as a guy who loves fiberglass would say it's "better" someone else would disagree.

Like I said before, a fiberglass T bucket is a million miles from a real Model T made by Ford, in every way shape or form, but I love them. On the same note, I get a kick out of "original" cars and knowing that this car hauled a baby home from the hospital, you know what I mean?

But on that note, what about the car made from swap meet pieces and assembled, is it a "real" Model A Ford? LOL, there's a hook for you.

How about my truck, only two panels on the entire truck came from the same truck, and they don't even match the pink slip, the two front fenders. There aren't two other matching parts, doors rear fenders running boards nothing. Hell, it's had THREE frames, THREE different cabs, multiple doors, multiple hoods, every single piece of the bed including the fenders came from different trucks. The only thing that goes with the pink slip (I am pretty sure because it's a, 80 mph) is the speedometer! It is only a tiny bit more "real" than a Dynacorn steel reproduction! LOLOL Same with my Gran Sport, one door, the body structure it's self and one fender are all that is original.

But when I drive my Gran Sport all that is forgotten of course.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:33 PM
MXrider13's Avatar
The Dude
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 156
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave57210 View Post
So now we're into the old argument - "glass is class" versus "steel is real"

However - as swvalcon noted - the vast majority of folks who are interested in hot rods now just cannot relate to something from that era (or even earlier - T's & A's are just not the objects of lust they once were.

Even the shoeboxes are not really in as much demand as they once were either - but 60's Stangs and Camaros - wow! Around here, '57 Chev's are half the price they were a few years ago, while a '67 Camaro seems to have doubled. In my frequent travels through Wa, Or, BC, Alta, Idaho etc I see 30's and 40's cars sitting for sale. A year later they are still sitting there. I see a '55 Dodge sitting for sale for 3 years and still there. When I see a rusty '67 'Stang fastback sitting for sale on my way TO somewhere, it is usually gone by the time I am on my way back. Maybe the owners of the ones for sale for a long time have weird ideas about price, or maybe there is just not enough interest. I suspect that if a '29 A, a '38 Deluxe, a 57 Fairlane and a 67 Mustang were all for sale at the same price, (in roughly the same condition) the pony would sell first.

If there is reduced interest in 30's cars, there will be reduced sales of them whether they are steel or glass.

Prediction: the body molds will somehow make their way to a certain un-named other country (that is now making and selling fiberglass RVs into the North American market) and prices will fall.
I can agree with this. I remember when I was a little kid in the late 90's most of the cars at the car shows where 30's Coupes and Roadsters. I remember for most of the 2000s the 57 Chevy's and the other 50's cars were popular now I see a lot of the 60's muscle cars.
Times are changing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:42 PM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,379
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 138
Thanked 324 Times in 299 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
It's no "argument" in my opinion, it's simply what different people like. I personally don't want a repro body ,but would love to build a T bucket with a glass body so go figure.

There are piles of repro body parts out there to save the original steel bodies, where does it stop being original and become repro?

How about a Fiat altered drag car I would love to do one of those too, and it would be glass. So there is a gray area in my head too.

But many people there simply isn't an issue at all, a car body is a car body and if it looks like a 32 Ford coupe and but was made last week out of fiberglass it is exactly the same to them and real, as if it was "real" steel. So there are many views on the subject.

I don't think fiberglass or steel repro bodies are going away, ever. Companies come and go for a number of different reasons is how I see it. This custom "37 Ford" body we are talking about has either ran it's course and people are sick of it or the company simply folded do to poor management or they simply retired who knows. But if it is gone for ever you can bet in a few decades someone will be dying to own a "retro" custom body and pay big bucks for one.

Brian
easy for the body guy in cali to say..
you don't pay your self body labor.. the rest of us. have to farm out a chop. patches, etc..

the problem is 2 fold
1) allot of states require you to title it as the year built, or engine used, my state requires engine year.. that makes it tuffer to pass the emmissions test..
2) the people that want these things are getting older.. I can't see many 20-30y/o wanting a model a or t..
3)NO ONES GOT MONEY..
4) some companies that have been around owners might want to retire.. and an employee that might want to take it over might not get a loan to do so..
5) most want way to much for there incomplete kit..

the new bix model is a kit that gives you everything needed- engine/trans/rear and is not priced to the moon..FFR allows you to buy and build in 2 stages.. #1 the roller.. #2 the body/interior.. making it easier to afford.. and even at one shot.. isn't all that much when you factor in ,no need for a donor car..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:26 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,575
Thanked 1,328 Times in 1,152 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
easy for the body guy in cali to say..
you don't pay your self body labor.. the rest of us. have to farm out a chop. patches, etc..


the problem is 2 fold
1) allot of states require you to title it as the year built, or engine used, my state requires engine year.. that makes it tuffer to pass the emmissions test..
2) the people that want these things are getting older.. I can't see many 20-30y/o wanting a model a or t..
3)NO ONES GOT MONEY..
4) some companies that have been around owners might want to retire.. and an employee that might want to take it over might not get a loan to do so..
5) most want way to much for there incomplete kit..

the new bix model is a kit that gives you everything needed- engine/trans/rear and is not priced to the moon..FFR allows you to buy and build in 2 stages.. #1 the roller.. #2 the body/interior.. making it easier to afford.. and even at one shot.. isn't all that much when you factor in ,no need for a donor car..
What in the world did I say that you are referring to?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:41 PM
swvalcon's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: rust on lt body shell
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mn
Age: 64
Posts: 1,034
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
For a lot of us old time hotrodder we hate to think about it but the 30-40s cars are slowly losing their appeal. I grew up car wise in the mid 60's to early 70. I'am more into those cars than I am a 30 ford roadster. Do you think the young kid today thats into the turbo charged rice grinders when he gets in his 50-60's and maybe has a little extra cash and more free time,and thinking about his younger days is going to say gee I think I'll build me a fiberglass 1933 ford three window?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:49 PM
sedanbob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Louis
Age: 66
Posts: 626
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 61
Thanked 80 Times in 77 Posts
A while back I posted about a guy I met at a cruise with a Willys gasser. He wanted a 'real steel' body to start with. He found a basket case - no problem, he's a sheet metal worker. He cut up sedan as a donor car for the cowl and floor, and some pieces to fill in the third of the roof that was missing. He spent 5 years working on that body. He borrowed a pair of doors to line up his body work. When he tried to buy steel doors, he had a very hard time finding any. One pair he found the guy wanted $5000 for! He bought fiberglass doors, rear fenders, and a one-piece fiberglass tilt front end. His body was at least 50% fiberglass, but if you asked him, I'll bet he would say it's 'real steel'. I don't care what it was made out of, it looked cool and he was having a blast driving it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:50 PM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,379
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 138
Thanked 324 Times in 299 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
What in the world did I say that you are referring to?

Brian
the just get a real 37 and fix the body,,
easier said than done..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:10 PM
sedanbob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Louis
Age: 66
Posts: 626
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 61
Thanked 80 Times in 77 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXrider13 View Post
I can agree with this. I remember when I was a little kid in the late 90's most of the cars at the car shows where 30's Coupes and Roadsters. I remember for most of the 2000s the 57 Chevy's and the other 50's cars were popular now I see a lot of the 60's muscle cars.
Times are changing.
A few years ago the NSRA started opening up their shows to newer vehicles. They used to restrict to Pre-49 only, now it's a sliding 30-year mark. This year, anything 1983 or older. There was a lot of protest from the older guys, but the shows go on, and are still well attended.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodders' Lounge posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
end of an era nissan Hotrodders' Lounge 3 11-04-2012 09:25 AM
End of an era willys36@aol.com Hotrodders' Lounge 7 06-02-2010 09:48 PM
Custom Interior using fiberglass. iammarkjones Interior 1 03-13-2007 12:20 AM
End of an Era 1ownerT Off-Topic 1 12-30-2006 02:39 AM
custom fiberglass speakerbox 38chevysedan Interior 7 01-02-2005 11:59 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.