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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2004, 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by 1BAD80
The postings kinda reads that some are thinking of using it in a higher percentage. Feds want 15% ethenol in the future.

The more alcohol, the more needed to burn almost twice that of gas.

Normally, Detroit doesn’t put things on the market unless most of the bugs have been ironed out.
Ethanol conversions experience a 30% reduction in economy when jetted for max power - METHANOL is a 50% reduction (2:1 ratio) and as stated before the lean limits of ethanol are similar to gasoline. There are already thousand's of factory-built vehicles running on E85 (which the Fed. is pushing for the near future) that have a slight (5-10%) loss in economy as compared to their performance on gasoline. The limiting factor is the availability of ethanol - not undeveloped technology or "bugs". Anybody can go out and buy a new car that will run on both gas and E85, but not everyone will want to do an older vehicle conversion because of possible expense, poor economy (in certain applications), and potential headache's.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2004, 07:42 PM
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how would I know if my car can run off e85? it's a 2000 Pontiac Grand Am SE with a 3.4 "3400"v6 under the hood. Basically a 3.1 "3100"v6, and a 2.8L v6. Just updated, and different bore/stroke.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2004, 07:04 PM
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go to http://www.e85fuel.com/ and click on "flex fuel vehicles" - on the left side of the page for a complete list. Your Grand Am is not listed there.
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:49 PM
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The blend of the ethenol (corn alcohol) is normally 10% with gas.
That is the regular blend that will work in almost every vehicle, the mix these guys are talking about is 85% ethanol and 15% Gas. One of the links provide earlier gives some good info on it. I am uneducated on the modifications necessary to run this fuel, but it looks pretty cool! Definately want to learn more! Livin here in Nebraska/Iowa, there is plenty of renewable Ethanol!
Tom

http://www.e85fuel.com/faqs/e85.htm
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Old 10-08-2004, 11:59 PM
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I have a couple of golf tees that are made from corn. They feel like plastic, but are biodegradeable. That way we can use oil for better things; like gasoline. Then we'd have enough supply so it'd be $0.85/gallon (I wish) like when I was a little squirt. Corn prices would go up since it'd be used for making plastics also.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2004, 07:25 AM
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Ethanol

Most of the pumps in the country or at least in major cities right now have anywhere from 8% to 12% ethanol in the fuel for emission purposes. The problem when you go to higher % usage like the E-85 is like Methanol it will absorb the moisture out of the air. This will corrode the internal components of the engine, increasing the maintenance costs. There are pros & cons on both side, but I don't think you're going to see a wholesale change in the near future.
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Old 10-14-2004, 08:06 AM
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I did a research paper on the use of E-85. The government is really dropping the ball not making this available at every gas station in the country.
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:03 PM
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do tell what you found out in your research...I am curious about getting some E-85 to try here in new york. My main question is if it is safe to use in a gas motor with no mods?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2005, 04:50 PM
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There is no incentive for the Government to do anything. Until the Ethanol industry can fill the pockets of the politicians like the oil company's do things won't change. The recently passed energy bill requires 7 billion gallons of ethanol used for fuel over the next few years, the ethanol industry wanted 8b mandated and the oil company's were pushing for 5b.
One of the big oil's arguments were that the additional ethanol mandated would raise gas prices.????????
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:44 PM
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When using ethanol have your carburetor plated in nickel.It will last forever.
Fuel lines should be converted to plastic.Fuel pumps and tank sending units should last a few months.

Due to the totally different stoichiometric air fuel ratio expect about 40% higher fuel consumption.Gasoline runs at 15:1,ethanol at 9:1.At lot less air for the same amount of fuel.

When carbureted it will never cold start bellow 50F.The way around is a little electric pump to give it a shot of gasoline from a small recipient.Once it starts expect about 3 minutes minimum of warm up before you can slowly move the car.

If it is not subsidized by government ethanol will always cost more than gasoline even at todays prices.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2005, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BAD80
The blend of the ethenol (corn alcohol) is normally 10% with gas.

The jetting and amount of ethenol with compression must be considered.
The more alcohol, the more needed to burn almost twice that of gas.
The mix at the pumps does not need any jet changes.

89/93 octane gas with ethenol is still a 89/93 octane burn rate.
my $.002 cents worth.
First ethanol has a lesser BTU content than gasoline. Any percentage of eth lowers your miles per gallon...... period. In my Lincoln Town Car that requires 91+ octane, it drops 2 mpg highway instantly. It has higher octane, but lesser BTU (power) per gallon.

I avoid it like the plague when I go to Illinois.

Second.. Ethanol was commonly used as engine fuel 75 years ago. It was called moonshine/whitelightning....

Consider too, LP gas has 145 octane, but the BTUs are so low, you get only about 2/3 your original gas mileage.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2005, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ownerT
There is no incentive for the Government to do anything. Until the Ethanol industry can fill the pockets of the politicians like the oil company's do things won't change. The recently passed energy bill requires 7 billion gallons of ethanol used for fuel over the next few years, the ethanol industry wanted 8b mandated and the oil company's were pushing for 5b.
One of the big oil's arguments were that the additional ethanol mandated would raise gas prices.????????
Sort of Correct. The overall oil consumption necessary to produce the grain for the ethanol is an energy losing proposition. The only advantage to ethanol is that the grain that cannot be used for food due to spoilage, logistics to deliver, etc.. can be used to make white lightning. It is better than letting it rot in piles like it sometimes does all over the country. Of course, it does decrease our gas mileage and power due to its lower BTU content. Consider this mileage loss, and the loss to produce the ethanol in the first place, and it is an energy INefficient situation.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2005, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Sort of Correct. The overall oil consumption necessary to produce the grain for the ethanol is an energy losing proposition. The only advantage to ethanol is that the grain that cannot be used for food due to spoilage, logistics to deliver, etc.. can be used to make white lightning. It is better than letting it rot in piles like it sometimes does all over the country. Of course, it does decrease our gas mileage and power due to its lower BTU content. Consider this mileage loss, and the loss to produce the ethanol in the first place, and it is an energy INefficient situation.
I hear conflicting stories, when ethanol was first produced it was a loser, but with technology it has reversed? I have a brother in-law that along with his dad and grandfather have invested alot of money into one of the new refineries. It appears that big oil is saying one thing and the ethanol producers are saying another.
Currently around central IA gasoline with ethanol is .10 a gal cheaper although it receives a .04 a gal tax cut, why the .06 difference ?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2005, 08:38 AM
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Probably someone already told you about brazilian alcohol fuel. It's basically the sabe thing you're asking about ethanol. Well, here some facts:

We used it since late 70's or early 80's (don't know cos i'm too young to), but here are the facts:
The carburated cars used special niquel-plating carburators and fuel pumps, 10:1-12:1 compression ratios, and a Gas cold-start system. Hard to start on cold (less than +15șC cold, not snow cold), but 10 to 20% more power than gas ones with less fuel efficiency.
After 1989-1990 we had our first's eletronic fuel injected alcohol cars, the cold start problem was fixed with a richer mixture for cold water temp. once the "new car magazine - 4 rodas" tested an alcohol cold start car inside an industrial refrigerator (under -25șC) and id started perfectly.

After some years of non alcohol cars been made now we have the "flex-fuel" tecnology, whitch is a new hope for us high performance lovers, cos our high-output fuel was disappearing from gas stations... now it's back!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2005, 11:34 AM
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All this talk about getting an engine to run on the stuff has me wondering... What will become of catalytic converters? Will we need them, or will the hydrocarbon/CO biproducts be negligable with ethanol/gas? Also, for all of the turbo, and good tuning, folks out there using EGT and Air/Fuel gauges, will these values change to the point we'll have to relearn what to look for good/bad? I guess we'll just have to wait around to see who starts doing it first and writes all the "how to..." books and makes money .
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