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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2005, 04:34 PM
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The Mowhawk gas stations sell it up here in Canada. The 94 octane premium is the same price as any other premium on the market. It is the only grade that has 15%. I have not noticed a differencein performance in both high compression small blocks, and a lower compression big block currently in use. It does state in my 92 GMC manual that ethanol fuel is not recommended due to water absoption and corrosion issues. It helps with aircare emissions testing though. ususally put some of that in for a test as an extra precaution.
The corrosion issues are a concern for a long term vehicle owner. I have heard from mechanics in the trade that they can tell if an engine thay are working on is burning the ethanol enriched fuels or not. More often in relation to the parts they are replacing...

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 06:17 PM
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radracer,

The values for EGT (<700ºC máx) and your Lambda (wide-band ones) are the same for Gasoline and Alcohol, at least on the fuel we use here at Brazil. I've worked almost a year installing and setting "unichip" in every configuration of engine we could have here (from 1.0l gas to 302 V-8 twin turbo alcohol) and the parameters are the same (0.83 Lambda for maximum performance, 1 for emissions and 1,15 to milage). So if you got a wide-band Lambda and a pirometer, go ahead!

PS: Paulo, sou eu o Rafael ("R"afael "T"hielmann "Hatch", amanhã (terça) levo o setup do carb. do opala do Mr. Fields lá no galpão.... abraços. AH comprei hoje o Chiltons for Chevette (hehehe)
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsongrass1
Where's 4jaw?

He's full of .....this kind of infomation
hehe...

Costs too much to run, propane is still cheaper and has many of the same attributes that make alchohol attractive. Thats why it never caught on I guess.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 11:36 AM
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I have built and operated vehicles that were pure ethanol....back in the first Gas crunch of the late 70's and early eighties. A couple points that were touched on.... first while cost to produce are high, so was gas initially until better processes were developed. The by product of the process makes an animal feed that is better than just corn itself because it breaks down some of harder to digest material. Ethanol is known as an Oxiginated fuel, meaning it releases some oxygen in the burn process, one of the reasons it is used in winter in a lot of areas. The release of oxygen also contributes to a leaning of the mixture, and why larger jetting/injectors are needed. We used to start ours (yes we had not completely remedied the cold start issue) with a small propane bottle that we would crack open for a moment until the engine got warm.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
. It is the only grade that has 15%
You're thinking of Mohawks ethanol blended stuff. That is 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline. The E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline. his produces a significant increasein octane rating, however moisture absorbsion and corrosiveness is a larger issue.

As a fuel, propane is actually better, as far as engines are concerned. Being a dry fuel, the engine longevity is increased dramatically. No fuel wash, oil dilution, ect. I've rebuilt oil pumpjack engines, as well as Ford and Chev engines used in the oilfield, and some of these had tens of thousands of hours on them, with nearly no cylinder wear.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:13 AM
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My chevy truck is a flex fuel vehicle and I haven't seen any problems with it what-so-ever. The ethanol used today is a lot better than what was blended several years ago. As for the cost of production issue...they rate it in units, and ethanol is cheaper to produce than gasoline. For every unit produced it takes .8 units to produce ethanol and to produce gas it takes around 1.2. Ethanol can harm rubber parts but that issue has been addressed by manufacturers. What it boils down to, at least to me, is I'd rather our American farmers make money from their corn than the Arabs for their oil.

Barry
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:50 AM
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More ethanol please

More ethanol would mean less influence exerted on to the west by the towel heads, wouldn't that be nice! Just think if we didn't have to buy so much petroleum from them, the OECD would not be holding the rest of the world by the short and curlies. Lobby your local member now!!!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2005, 06:08 AM
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It's not just the corn producers, ethanol (ethyl alcohol) can be produce from straight sugar, or anything containing sugar for that matter. Corn, wheat, fruits, tomato's, almost anything with sugar. The higher the sugar content the more ethyl alcohol can be produced. Sugar cane could become the new crude oil.
And if E85 every catches on big, the grain/sugar producers would now gain control over the internal combustion fuel market. Yes, the Farmers!!

but the government would want to closely regulate ethanol distilleries, even more so than they already do. It's pure grain, after all, and the moonshiners have known how to make it for decades. More people would want to produce their own, and the government wouldn't be able to tax it.

I'm still waiting to see a good conversion kit offered for FI cars that didn't come equipped for E85
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2005, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnoftsger
I'm still waiting to see a good conversion kit offered for FI cars that didn't come equipped for E85

I want to know now to convert my carb 383 S10 to ethanol... The Carb Shop says they don't do alky carbs anymore and Braswell wants 1300 for an ethanol ready 750 cfm holley.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2005, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornfieldcars
My chevy truck is a flex fuel vehicle and I haven't seen any problems with it

What it boils down to, at least to me, is I'd rather our American farmers make money from their corn than the Arabs for their oil.

Barry
I guess Americans usually miss the point that

1) the USA only gets 9 (nine) percent of our oil from the middle east. period.

2) we didn't get any oil from Iraq
3) we don't get any oil from Iran
4) Communist China is # 2 in consumption and is buying all the oil they want and that is running the price up
5) Commie China is paying for it with American money.

6) significant authoritative sources insist that the overall oil consumption necessary to produce ethanol exceeds what ethanol saves

check it out and see that this is correct.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2005, 08:24 AM
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Outside of the political ramifications, you existing carb will not take to E85, ethyl alcohol, well at all...In fact the alcohol will eat it up. Anodizing the aluminum will prevent that i'm told. Magnesium also will be consumed by the alcohol. Fuel injected that are E85 compatible, don't use any aluminum and there for it isn't a problem. Stainless Steel is highly recommended although Teflon coated steel will suffice for fuel lines.

Alcohol doesn't vaporized/atomize as well as gas so cold starts are an issue, again fuel injectors go along way to help here. The carb would have to be jetted up somewhere between 10-30% depending on a whole host of variables. I don't believe brass has any issue with alcohol, so jetting isn't much of a problem. Anodizing the aluminum actually adds several mils to the aluminum and therefore could change small orifice sizes in a carb, depending on the carb of course.

I have personally scoured the internet and haven't found any conversion kits for older cars. Some web site actually claim it is against EPA regulations to convert a car to run E85, but i haven't found that regulation personally.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:31 PM
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I don't see where running something that produces virtually no hydrocarbons will violate EPA regulations, I could see where the government wouldn't like it since they don't have much control over it at this point.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2005, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnoftsger
I have personally scoured the internet and haven't found any conversion kits for older cars. Some web site actually claim it is against EPA regulations to convert a car to run E85, but i haven't found that regulation personally.
Search for Memo 1A from the EPA. It has been updated (in 97 I think) to include restrictions on alt. fuel conversions.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2005, 06:55 PM
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The last two posts contained references to the two largest problems, in my opinion, facing ethanol production and distribution on a national scale.

Government control and the E.P.A.

I finally got my GSXR (Frankenbike) on a dyno and discovered that the "lean" mixture that I thought I had was actually too rich. I'm not running it on E85 but pure methanol. Now my mileage has increased and I'm within 4mpg of it's original rating. So don't tell me that an alcohol engine can't be as efficient as a gas engine, well almost as efficient, I own one. I know I'm still 4mpg short but it's a 15yr old junkyard bike and I'm not an engineer. I'd like to think that if I can make it happen in my living room floor with a little help from a couple of friends that the oem's can do it as well.

Larry

P.S.,

Minnesota has 167 E85 stations and they are all selling very well. Cold starting must not be a very big problem anymore.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2005, 07:25 PM
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Hey Radracer43. You are evidently eager to burn ethanol without the high cost of a new carburetor.I am sure your 377 is a high CR engine.Do this then.Get a simple 2 barrel carby.Could be a Holley or a Motorcraft 2100.
Replace the main jets for units about 30% larger in area.Do the same to the power valve tiny holes.On a Holley they are on the metering plate.Open up also a bit more on the accelerator nozzles.Readjust your idle screws about one and a half turns more.Advance the spark some 4 degrees.Once you practice on simple carbs,do your definite ,plating it in Nickel.

That is a crude way of converting to ethanol.Was very popular here in Brasil at the beginning of our "Proalcohol" government funded revolution to avoid petroleum in the late 70s.Our automobile industry got to a point back then that almost 90% of the new cars sold were alcohol fed.None were computerized.

Do not rely much on spark plug reading.Alcohol does not colour them much.
Keep checking the oil stick.If it changes towards a beige colour you are way too rich.Change the oil and filter and lean out.Go play!
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