[chevy302builder18]

Stitch, your probably right, and possibly wrong, newer Flex fuel vehicles are coming out, and they get 45 mpg, not to mention almost all of Fords flex fuel vehicles.
I think of the math like this. USAs has the top grouth of corn(where E85 comes from) and other grains is pretty big, we feed most of the world, now lets say the middle east quits selling us the oil. US could simply stop selling them grain and we could be spot on E85 and push gasoline further.

[stich626]

Originally Posted by chevy302builder18

Stitch, your probably right, and possibly wrong, newer Flex fuel vehicles are coming out, and they get 45 mpg, not to mention almost all of Fords flex fuel vehicles.
I think of the math like this. USAs has the top grouth of corn(where E85 comes from) and other grains is pretty big, we feed most of the world, now lets say the middle east quits selling us the oil. US could simply stop selling them grain and we could be spot on E85 and push gasoline further.

sorry those cars don't get that mpg useing e85.. not even close..
flex fuel cars get their best mpg on straight ole gas.. less with e10 and the worst on e85.. because the flexfuel cars don't have the static compression to make up for the lack of btu's in the ethnol..
ya, usa made fuel sounds great till you read what it takes to make the ethnol. and what fuel is used to make it..

[chevy302builder18]

Owell i could still produce the stuff from sugar and yeast i wont mind it a bit if they stop making it

[stich626]

Originally Posted by chevy302builder18

Owell i could still produce the stuff from sugar and yeast i wont mind it a bit if they stop making it

and what you heating it with.. to distill it ?
when you use more energy to make less energy.. you are going backwards..

[1957plymouthhemi]

At one point I was looking at building a high compression E85 motor. I figured it would be neat to have high compression car I could actually drive again. After watching the local E85 situation that plan is on indefinite hold.

There is a big difference in price and availability where I am and the Mid west. The promised 50-80 cents a gallon price difference (which would help offset the fuel mileage decrease) never occurred out here at best the E85 was only 5-20 cents cheaper than regular gas.

Then there is the MAJOR issue of availability the last I checked there are only a total of 16 gas stations in 10 cities that even have E85. Even though I live within 10 miles of one of the station (the next closest it 75 miles away), that really kind of limits where I can drive to. After the initial hype about E85 some 6 years or so ago and those 16 stations converting over there haven’t been any more added.

My wife works at one of the stations that sells E85, from what I am told the E85 customers fall into one of two groups.......the hardcore tree huggers that can afford a flex fuel vehicle (it actually cost more to run the E85 because of the decreased mileage), and the local racers who have done the fuel system mods and are using it in place high priced race fuel.

With that limited market if the price of E85 goes up in price much (which it will without the subsidies) I don’t see E85 being around here too much longer.

As said, enjoy it while you can.

[cobalt327]

500 gallons of mash will net you about 50-75 gallons of alky (10-15%) IIRC. Don't know about using just sugar and yeast, but if it were all that easy everybody would be doing it. And you need to know the fedgov will take a dim view of any diverted into potables that are sold/traded should anyone get this idea. Bootlegging is still a federal deal.

[chevy302builder18]

Originally Posted by cobalt327

500 gallons of mash will net you about 50-75 gallons of alky (10-15%) IIRC. Don't know about using just sugar and yeast, but if it were all that easy everybody would be doing it. And you need to know the fedgov will take a dim view of any diverted into potables that are sold/traded should anyone get this idea. Bootlegging is still a federal deal.

Federal law does not illegalize personal use of homemade brews. I dont plan on selling it. Bootleggin is selling. I can still make my own brew in my home for me, as long as i dont sell it.
It would be like turbo blue additive to gasoline. Anyways beside the point id still rather have higher compression, and E8 than the normal gasoline limitations, no i believe there is a connection with camshatf and compression and Techs pointed that out. I dont believe E85 will be stopped in production.
If i have to produce some sorta stuff to make my car run i will. Not to mention E85s eco friendly emissions. Keep the cons coming!! It makes for good pros and cons

[chevy302builder18]

Ok lets move on from E85. Its got more more cons then pros. I was not argueing with you, i was just opposing opinion to get the facts out. In other words we were discussing the plot "if i were to" in considering E85. With that said i believe you understand statements made before by me in oppisition. Its still an issue with compression. I have this unbelieveable and what most might say "impossible" to do thing. Id like the best of both worlds in performance, ground tearing Torque and High horsepower in a streetable package. And it looks impossible by the responses ive been getting. No free lunch and ik you guys dont wanna spoon feed me

[matts37chev]

build the E85 motor
if and when E85 goes away, get new pistons then

[stich626]

Originally Posted by matts37chev

build the E85 motor
if and when E85 goes away, get new pistons then

hahahahaha, if it was only that easy

[cobalt327]

Originally Posted by chevy302builder18

Ok lets move on from E85. Its got more more cons then pros. I was not argueing with you, i was just opposing opinion to get the facts out. In other words we were discussing the plot "if i were to" in considering E85. With that said i believe you understand statements made before by me in oppisition. Its still an issue with compression. I have this unbelieveable and what most might say "impossible" to do thing. Id like the best of both worlds in performance, ground tearing Torque and High horsepower in a streetable package. And it looks impossible by the responses ive been getting. No free lunch and ik you guys dont wanna spoon feed me

If you don't want to be held hostage by the cost/availability of E85 down the road, build a turbocharged engine. It's no 'free lunch' but it can make killer power, can knock down reasonable mileage when driven sedately, doesn't require a lot of cam, doesn't adversely effect driveability. With a reasonable SCR and boost/timing control you could run it on pump gas.

The downsides are well known but there will be downsides to ANY set up.

[chevy302builder18]

Originally Posted by cobalt327

If you don't want to be held hostage by the cost/availability of E85 down the road, build a turbocharged engine. It's no 'free lunch' but it can make killer power, can knock down reasonable mileage when driven sedately, doesn't require a lot of cam, doesn't adversely effect driveability. With a reasonable SCR and boost/timing control you could run it on pump gas.

The downsides are well known but there will be downsides to ANY set up.

Turbos do look intresting, id have to have forged crank and pistons though wouldnt i? It sure does look good, the heads i have those cast iron largeport bowtie vortecs. Sum of a nasty set up

[oldbogie]

Originally Posted by chevy302builder18

ok so id like to scavenge the most streetable and the most top end power out of my engine, lets say i had 10:5.1 with a DCR of 8:9.1 and id like to run E85.. I heard normal carburators wont work with this fuel, and i also know you can work 12:5.1 comp on iron heads i believe.. So my question is, what would it take to convert my engine to E85? And if im wrong bout the compression ratios this fuel can handle with cast iron let me know please, im really considering it. Any opinions or experience with this fuel?

Ethanol simply requires some richer jetting with E85 maybe a couple, three sizes, this isn't the same scale of the problem you get trying to feed an engine Methanol.

Unfortunately there isn't the free lunch people think is there 'cause the octane of E85 is not as high as generally advertised. Instead of 105/107 or so it's much closer to 97 when mixed with 15% gasoline and tested as a mix rather than from playing with the math of octanes of each to mix ratios. This real lack of octane rate really limits where you can go with compression which if you could, a substantial increase in compression could be used to gain back a sizable portion of the lower mileage of ethanol vis-a-vis straight run gasoline.

It would be more likely that you could use 12.5 on straight ethanol with just enough gasoline to get it running, but it's not too likely that E85 will let you go that far.

For the guys who want to brew this at home there are two restrictions one legal the other chemical. The law doesn't let you make unlimited amounts of shine even for your own use and it takes a lot of energy to make fuel grade shine, that's 200 proof. You'll likely burn every stick of wood in the state trying to get enough heat to do that with a conventional still. This is the energy limit the ethanol people hit pretty early on, which is one of the contributing reasons why the nay-sayers point out that it takes more energy to make than you get. Actually making gasoline would be the same way if there weren't catalysts that foster many of the reactions allowing the use of a lot less energy than would otherwise be necessary. Hopefully, there's a future process out there for converting shine to fuel that will work similarly.

In spite of the fact that by molar weight, nearly half the fuel burnt in an engine is exhausted as water (vapor); but when water is introduced with the fuel it doesn't take much to be very damaging to an engine's internal parts. This is why even in WWII aircraft engines the use of water or water alcohol injection was limited to WOT performance and damn little of that in terms of time against total operating time. So it's important to get hugging close to that magic 200 proof number.

Bogie