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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2013, 08:44 PM
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I retired from Freightliner almost 4 years ago. These laws are federally mandated. It has been a nightmare for the manufacturers to comply. So much so that Catipillar finally decided it was not worth it. They got out of the on road production of heavy truck engines rather than try any longer to comply with the ever increasing emission requirements. Daimler Trucks North America owns Freightliner brand and Detroit Diesel as well as the Mercedes truck engines. They have no choice but to continue to strive for an efficient, economical, and reliable power plant that is compliant. The new engines are more expensive to produce, heavier, and less fuel efficient. Also they have to run on a low sulpher fuel that now costs more than gasoline. Isn't government regulation great?

John L
I've been wondering about the cost of diesel. A few years back it was like a dollar less than gas, now it's about 70 cents more. Isn't it easier/cheaper to produce?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2013, 08:46 PM
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It was until the federal government mandated that the sulphur level meet lower requirements that requires new refinement proceedures.

John L
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:50 PM
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It was until the federal government mandated that the sulphur level meet lower requirements that requires new refinement proceedures.

John L
Ahh. Well hopefully they'll settle in and perfect the new procedures and get the price back down. Some guys "out west" as we call it (toward the middle of florida, I'm on the east coast) run the "red dye" diesel, which I believe is off road diesel. Hefty fine if you get caught though
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:49 AM
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Government= Stupidity to the maximum
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:04 AM
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We pay taxes so the farmer can be subsidized. The farmer raises corn so we can make ethanol. We pay extra at the pump so the corn can be bought, processed, and made into gasoline. We pay extra for our food at the grocery store because the farmers are growing gasoline.

Government regulation at it's best.

John L
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
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It gets worse.
Even farm equipment (combines) have DPF's on them and have to use DEF.

I had a guy coming into the store and was buying DEF in 10-case lots every other day during harvest. The amount of fuel that a combine burns is horrific!

Apparently the major component to this stuff is urea, which is also found in fertilizer.

More info here:
DEF
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 66GMC View Post
It gets worse.
Even farm equipment (combines) have DPF's on them and have to use DEF.

I had a guy coming into the store and was buying DEF in 10-case lots every other day during harvest. The amount of fuel that a combine burns is horrific!

Apparently the major component to this stuff is urea, which is also found in fertilizer.

More info here:
DEF
I read somewhere that there are some unintended environmental hazards from the urea in the DEF. I cannot seem to find any information on it now but it wouldn't surprise me. I've hauled truckloads of urea fertilizer and it's kind of nasty stuff. You don't dare leave it in your truck overnight and the guys that load it have been burned (chemically) from contact with their bare skin and caution you to wash it off right away if you get it on you. It doesn't really seem like a good idea to vaporize the stuff and shoot it into the air we breath.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:40 PM
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I read somewhere that there are some unintended environmental hazards from the urea in the DEF. I cannot seem to find any information on it now but it wouldn't surprise me. I've hauled truckloads of urea fertilizer and it's kind of nasty stuff. You don't dare leave it in your truck overnight and the guys that load it have been burned (chemically) from contact with their bare skin and caution you to wash it off right away if you get it on you. It doesn't really seem like a good idea to vaporize the stuff and shoot it into the air we breath.
Yup, nasty stuff. The def will strip the paint right off of metal.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 66GMC View Post
It gets worse.
Even farm equipment (combines) have DPF's on them and have to use DEF.

I had a guy coming into the store and was buying DEF in 10-case lots every other day during harvest. The amount of fuel that a combine burns is horrific!
He could get a 55 gallon drum for $180 shipped. That's what i would do if I had one of these trucks or equipment.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:24 PM
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If anyone else is into diesel's, as i am, then I'm sure you've heard of the new DEF and DPF systems in the new trucks. For those that haven't heard of it, here's a basic summary: The DPF (diesel particulate filter) is supposed to catch all the little particles in the exhaust. Well obviously it is going to get clogged, so the vehicle is also equipped with a DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) injection system. What it does is sprays this fancy fluid into the exhaust to raise temperatures and burn all the particles to clean the DPF.
Now this already sounds like a pain in the a. Well there's more.
The fluid isn't cheap. $5 a gallon to fill a 5 gallon tank every 5,000 miles. That's an extra $25 every 5000 miles, for what? Well I'll tell you what, a loss of 2-3mpg compared to previous models.
So lets get this straight. There's extra emissions equipment on the truck that causes WORSE FUEL MILEAGE THAN WITHOUT IT! How does that make sense!?
"But you can just not fill the tank right?" WRONG! The truck will go into limp mode if you don't fill the tank. Some trucks, such as the powerstroke, won't even start without the fluid!
"Well I'll just get rid of the system". NOPE! That will void your warranty.
"Well I'll just deal with it til the warranty is up". That's fine, except for the fact that the warning system and the level sensors are malfunctioning in every brand. They can sense windsheild washer fluid, coolant, fuel, but the can't make this one work? Come on, man!
.
Anyone else think this is going way too far? It's costing owners money for the fluid, plus it hurts fuel mileage. I find it ridiculous.
thank the epa, and it not as expensive as you think it only accounts for about 3% of the fuel used so figure it like this would you rather have the older dpf systems which used fuel to create high enough egt to burn off particulate or spend like $12 5-6k still get 17+ mpg and have a truck that stock that rip a new one to most older trucks with add on's me personally while i dont like it it still better than the older dpf systems
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bigdog7373 View Post
He could get a 55 gallon drum for $180 shipped. That's what i would do if I had one of these trucks or equipment.
Yeah, we will be looking into that option for him for this fall's harvest season.
As I said, this will be an emerging market as everyone buys new equipment.
I "get it" why the EPA has jumped on this ... as everything runs on diesel these days.



Well ... diesel mixed with testosterone and immaturity in this particular case.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:58 AM
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Yeah, we will be looking into that option for him for this fall's harvest season.
As I said, this will be an emerging market as everyone buys new equipment.
I "get it" why the EPA has jumped on this ... as everything runs on diesel these days.



Well ... diesel mixed with testosterone and immaturity in this particular case.
I laughed too hard at that lol.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 66GMC View Post
Yeah, we will be looking into that option for him for this fall's harvest season.
As I said, this will be an emerging market as everyone buys new equipment.
I "get it" why the EPA has jumped on this ... as everything runs on diesel these days.



Well ... diesel mixed with testosterone and immaturity in this particular case.
SSSSSMMMMMMOOOOOOKKKKKIIIINNNNN!!!!!!! LOL!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:33 PM
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While kinda funny it really isn't to kool anymore to smoke people out.

My 99 Dodge still get 19-21 mpg. This winter seems better thqan last year so far. I just got 19.9 for 550 miles of "everything" driving. -5 temps a couple days, some snow and ice, highway and town driving.

It would be very hard to give up this truck. Paid for long ago, very low maintenance, good mpg, good tire life and trouble free. I can fix most problems myself and have a couple friends that let me use their shops when I need an extraq hand.

It's got almost 300k on it now. I fear rust cancer is going to be the end of it. Hopefully it will last untill they try to take my keys.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2013, 02:07 PM
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I am all for emission equiptment. If you have ever been in a shop when one of the smoke belchers fire ....you'll know what I mean.
There is no need for all that smoke , it is nasty , unhealthy as heck and just sensless.
I saw a newer dodge running an older dodge on a strip a while back. The Old dodge smoked like a freight train and the newer dodge , you couldnt tell it was running....except for the fact it spanked the other "smoker" quite badly.
Breathing exhaust emissions is getting old, keep the air clean.

I Know I Know...I just ticked a bunch of guys off....

I get nausea pretty badly just following some of the diesels out there when I am driving, I have to pass them.
You gotta realize though...todays cars and TRUCKS go farther on a gallon of fuel than ever, its lower octane ( Gas) , lower sulfur(diesel) and they make more power than ever right outta the box. How can you argue with that?

JMHO + some facts.
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