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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2008, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
Dan,
I'm not saying Peel and Seal is better,,,,, just cheaper!!!

the B-Quiet Extreme web site "claims" 230*,,,it failed at 160* on this test!!!:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/heat/

which is the approx same failure temp range as Peel and Seal, (has to stay stable at 158* for 8 days or something like that to pass roofing codes)

both are 45mils thick so I'm skeptical about the B-Quiet minus 67* temp rating claim as well....

I have read before and again in that article link that MFM Building Products Mfg. does make several of the "auto" sound deadener brands....
(maybe even B-Quiet?)
the "Peel and Seal" product name is for MFM's roofing products "line" for the past 20? years

use any brand you like....
I'm confused........So now those of us who don't use Peel&Seal exclusively are not dopes who have fallen prey to the marketing hype of the more expensive products?

How did Peel&Seal do in the sound deadener showdown? Oh, that's right it wasn't part of the sound deadener showdown, was it? That's because it's a roofing product.

Maybe MFM building products does make B-Quiet Extreme to B-Quiets specs. That happens all the time in every industry. Document your 158* claim for Peel&Seal. Read the factory recommendations in this link. Here are the specs for Peel&Seal right from MFM. CLICK HERE Nowhere does it claim to be anything but a waterproofing roof repair product, nor does it have a high temp rating of any kind, only the -25* pliability claim.

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Last edited by DanTwoLakes; 12-21-2008 at 08:24 PM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2008, 08:45 AM
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APalusky,
leave the sound deadener install till all is fabricated and epoxied and painted....
don't do it till it's time to install the carpet and interior...

food for thought:
the firewall is a main heat source into the car, (because of so many sq in of area) fabricate it as a double wall with even just a 1/8- 1/4" dead air space makes a world of difference for a cooler interior...

where to stick the sound deadener is based on doing a "thump" test with your knuckle or a hammer handle on all the panels to see if they are behaving like a drum head when all is finished...
(as explained in the RAAmatt instructions link)

Dan,
the spec page for Peel&Seal states it meets/passed ASTM D 1970 and ICC-ES testing specifications...
read the ICC-ES cold and heat testing section under 4.9.1

http://www.icc-es.org/Criteria/pdf_files/ac48.pdf

good luck trying to find even MSDS sheets to know what is in the "car" brand deadeners,,,
the sound deadener article is the only "independent" tests I've seen for how they do behave...
it is noted in the article that one or more of the products tested "appears" to just be Peel&Seal....
(send a email to B-quiet and get the product MSDS sheet and testing specs? it may be a better product???)

you aren't comfortable using a "building" product in a car,,,don't use it...

for others, here's a thread about similar "building" products with more info about deadeners:

http://www.civicforums.com/forums/21...ping-mats.html

Last edited by red65mustang; 12-22-2008 at 10:28 AM.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2009, 09:30 PM
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Sound Deadner versus Insulation

This thread was a long read, but my curiousity keep me in. I lost track of your objective - sound, heat or both - but you should be concerned with both.
Here's my experience. After several builds I learned my lesson.
First, a good dense sound deadner like Dynamat (nothing denser than Dynamat Original or Damplifier Pro - the sounddeadnershowdown.com shows this) on all flat surfaces that can resonante. I put this inside one (of 4) doors that had lost it's original waffled OEM sound deadner and on the flat inside panels of all 4 doors. It went on all flat floor panels and firwall. The roof had the original stuff and it's a lot of work to remove so I left it - it's not as dense as Dynamat but that was my compromise. Dynamat is expensive (don't do this on the cheap).
After that, a true automotive insulation went in. This stuff is about $40 for a 4'x6' piece. It comes aluminum one side or both sides. Thermotec can be bought at any good hot rod shop, like Jegs, under part no.s 54120 & 54125.
I used 1-sided first, aluminum down, then I added a second layer (not overkill, but close) of 2-sided.
I spent about $500 all told. I'm so happy I did. I got results! Car is dead quiet, remains cool in summer and a tiny heater works fine.
That's my advice - hope it jives with what the others have been saying - wouldn't want to rev anybody up.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordforman
This thread was a long read, but my curiousity keep me in. I lost track of your objective - sound, heat or both - but you should be concerned with both.
You are exactly right. Whatever a person does to deaden sound or dissipate heat will be an improvement over doing nothing. What each individual wants to use or spend is up to them. I lean towards your ideas of using more expensive products that are intended for use in cars.
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:51 AM
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Sorry.. I didn't know that this thread went this long, but it is good information. I have some sealing up to do first but it is to cold here to do anything right now. I have no heat in the garage. I bought RaaMatt. I will be using that first on all of panels. I also have the oem material on the roof. I plan to go around that material with the RaaMatt or strips of Dynamatt Extreme. I found the insulation at JCWhitney. I also read up on the glue used to hold it down. I figure by the time it is done with just the matting put down I may be up about 1/2".
Now after all of the RaaMatt, and the other insulation is put on especialy the firewall.. Would I then use the foam used under carpet before carpet?? Or is that overkill.. I am also going to use a automotive type carpet. I heard that it forms around the tunnel better than home carpet does.. Thanks for all of your information and Help.. Al
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 07:24 AM
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Just did this and used dynamat.....want dynamat at a good price check out amazon.com, they sell it, extreme pack for a 100 cheaper then I have found .. an idea to keep in mind is to use alum tape over the seems and a wall paper roller is cheaper then the official tool, works the same ... good stuff but wait until you are at the reassembly stage before you lay it down and I mean the wiring also ... just an fyi


coverage: it took 3 extreme packs for a 32 truck, that was the firewall, roof, rear of cab, cowl top and sides, floor top and underside, with enough left over to do the doors ...
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:07 AM
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Just wanted to thank all the participants for the wealth of info. Even the "arguments" provided a lot of useful info & tips to this novice.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 08:54 AM
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With the RaaMatt I got more material for a better price than the Dynamatt.. I may buy some of the Dynamatt Extreme for just the firewall, and kick panel to double up the material because of the heat and sound. I already have the rollers. I bought two rollers. One is smaller than the other to help mold it in the tighter areas. I have quite a few rolls of the aluminum tape. It is easier to use around drafty windows in the house. A plastic spreader is also useful to make it fit better, and also for making a straight cut. Then spray some adheasive over the matt and put the foil covered insulation then the carpet. Now I have also heard of putting the foam underlayment. I have the room for more added insulation though. The only thing I would need to do is put a 1/2" plate under the gas pedal.. The pipes for the heater are long enough.. Would carpet go all the way under the dash to the top of the firewall?? Al
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpmaster
Even the "arguments" provided a lot of useful info & tips to this novice.

But if you notice, there was no name calling, swearing, or questioning of ancestry and in the end we just agreed to disagree.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APalusky
Would carpet go all the way under the dash to the top of the firewall?? Al
If you want it to, yes, but normally just up far enough so the top edge of the carpet isn't seen, and below anything that goes through the firewall or is attached to the firewall.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:37 AM
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I have to agree.. No yelling, no I'ts my way or the highway. Just good information from the people that have done it before.. There are other sites out there with the information, but someone new to this field gets shot down for asking for help. Now I am closer to being done with my project. I have learned alot along the way. I am still learning. Would I do it all over again?? Probably not.. I would look for something (along with someone who knows what to look at) that is mostly done, but done the right way. Now people told me to save my money and get something that was a driver.. I know now that that is the way to go, but by doing all of the work myself. If at any time something breaks. I will be able to track it down. I am nearly done with the wiring. I have turned the engine over a couple of turns, but stopped it so that I can pull the destributor and turn the oil pump to prime the engine first. Next will be the drive shaft. then the body work. Put everything back together and paint it. So far it has been two years. I figured that it would take near 4 to 5 years. I still think it will take another year untill it is considered road worthy. I would like to say Thanks for all of your help Past Present, and Future. Al
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 03:05 PM
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jumpmaster,
glad you enjoyed the thread, thanks....

LOL, at our age,,, "grumpy old men" is the norm!!!!

nah, not a argument at all,,,Dan just asked for further explanation,,,so that "you" can be the judge!!!!

you will find the same back and forth banter between members in all the HR forums and that is what does make this site better than most!!
(atleast more entertaining to read???)
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:42 AM
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LOL. That's why I put "arguments" in quotes - it was clear that nobody in this thread takes themselves too seriously. In another thread concerning using SMC engines vs. other ones, a few members, while making good points from their own situations, are a bit dogmatic & intolerant of the circumstances of others who may not have pockets as deep as theirs (yes, I used a Chevy 350 crate engine because it was the cheapest alternative for a reliable new engine, but I also like how clean it looks with the distributer at the rear) - sort of like the Harley guys who maintain that the last "real" Harley was a flathead/panhead/shovelhead/etc. (depending, naturally, on what they own or want to own) - & sneer at anything else.

On to a question for you guys, since most of you seem to have done several builds & this is my first, and maybe only, one. Would I be causing myself grief by doing the interior work before doing the rewiring I also need to do on my entire truck (see my bio for a description)? I already have most of what I need to do the interior & I won't get around to the wiring until sometime this summer. Advice/warnings would be appreciated! Other than the heat/noise insulation stuff you've been talking about & carpet instead of a rubber mat, I'm going to do a pretty close to stock interior.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2009, 06:45 AM
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Do yourself a favor and get the vehicle wired first. Get everything you need to do to complete the car mechanically done before the interior goes in. Naturally, you can do things like sun visors, seats, and door panels without having the wiring done, as long as you don't install the stuff til the car is ready.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:40 AM
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it is wiser to complete the truck to the point that you can test drive it with just a drivers seat and de-bug everything mechanical and electrical....
(that's also going to tell you what areas need sound deadener and how much insulation thickness and air drafts/noises sealing and rattles etc,,,the empty shell amplifies everything)

my $.02:
for sure do not trim the carpet at all till everything is absolutely finalized...
there are just way to many "risks" to do a car out of correct/normal sequence,,,,interior is one of the last parts installed....
1950 pick up=only about 8 circuits to deal with,,,"gitter done now" so you can install the harnesses and individual wires with the best protected routing.....
(or you likely will be "one step forwards two steps back" and a couple of "ah sh##" later in the project)
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