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Old 03-28-2006, 01:22 PM
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Extremely bumed about 1st paint job...

We'll after posting a few times and recieving some awsome help from
everyone on here, I painted my car last summer. I have all the equiptment
but spent more time welding/bondoing and painting the hard to get places and derusting then spending time on the part you actually see. The result is one very solid zero rust car with a crappy finish! Orange peel/run city and I still managed to miss a few dents. Now that I know I have a great base to paint on a second time ... I would like some advice from you guys.

I have the gun/compressor/knowledge and all the tools I need. I will not need to do jamming this time or take anything apart. The paint job that is currently on it is: stripped to baremetal, filler, epoxy, 2k primer, base, clear. All in dupont nason.

I would like to just redo the outter body a'la the way 'they' do it on tv, ignoring the trunk/jams/hard parts you dont see. I was thinking of bonding the places i missed, reshooting the whole thing in epoxy. Then a nice single stage black urethane. Cost is a huge factor and would not want to spend more then $200 on materials.

$40 - bondo, misc...
$80 - Epoxy
$80 - Single Stage Urethane
These are all price I know I can get.
This way I also dont need to deal with isocynates cause that clear coat urethane stuff is brutal even with ventallation and a proper mask.

If I was to just redo the bondo and reshoot some more clear I would also need to buy base and the cost would be too much...This car only needs to look nice for a few years so s/s Urethane will do just fine.

The game plan:
Wash car, mark off all dents with masking tape so as not to miss any. Sand to bare metal dents and fill with bondo. Sand out runs. Mask off car. Spray whole car with 2-3 coats of nason ful-poxy in my garage. Drive to a do it yourself spray booth (there is one in my city) and spray the urethane.

What do you guys think?
Almost at my wits end but still not giving up...I lust for shiny paint...

thanks mark

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Last edited by flipp121; 03-28-2006 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:25 PM
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I think you are wasting more time and money... If you could not spray first time around and now you are going to a booth that you have not shot in, you will probably still have lots of problems... minus trash....

There is also no need in shooting epoxy on the whole thing.. absolute waste, scuffing the area's with 180 that have dents and putting a light coat of Icing should take care of that and then primer those spots only... scuff the rest of the car down re base your dings and clear whole gig again..

BTW any of your single stages are going to have ISO's... they have to be activated and that is what Iso's are... unless you use a crappy AE without hardner, then you are really really really wasting every bit of time and money..

If you cant do it right, dont do it at all IMO.. you spent all the time and money, had some problems, and now you want to throw all that away???

Honestly I would not bother it, unless you are going to take the needed steps and products... Just my opinion man, I mean think about it, you are obviously not satisfied with the outcome.. dings, dents, orange peel, runs... once the dings are fixed and whole thing re cleared you can sand out and buff it to make it very very nice


DONT GET BUMMED OUT, WE ALL HAVE PROBLEMS AND WE HAVE ALL HAD THINGS GO SOUTH EXPERIENCED OR NOT... USE THIS TO LEARN.. GO EASY ON YOURSELF
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:36 PM
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Well the other thing is that this car is not worth any money really, and I used it basically as a practice car. Had I not done the car in pieces I believe I have the skill to spray without much orangepeel or runs. Its just that painting something on a rope hanging from your garage is tough stuff. With everything back together I could do a good job. It just seems to me that it would be harder/take longer to try and blend all the dings and 2 big dents that I missed (god knows how) then to just respray the whole thing, maybe even skipping the booth. This thing doesnt need to be a show car (four door) but I do want to be able to sell it.

So the only thing that worries me is that I wont have the skill to blend the reshooting of the base. I suppose a quart of base and a gallon of clear will run me about the same thing. But there will be a few places where I have to take it to metal to bondo.
Thanks for the reply.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:47 PM
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I did read your article on blending and spot repair, I am just nervious that I dont have the skill to do it. I suppose anything will look better then it does now so I will give spot repairing and reclearing a chance. You are right it is worth doing once properly.
(My roof came out really nice for some reason )

So:
Sand to bare metal on big dents, bondo, coat bondo in 2k. Blend in base coat after scuffing surrounding area with 180. Scuff entire car with 180, reclear with some technique this time. Since the car is all together and not hanging on various pieces of tables/ropes it should be a lot easier to get consistent coat of clear.

Pop open a cold one and let er dry!
Oh and thank Mr.Bondoking for his time and patience!
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:35 PM
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oops double post.

Last edited by kenseth17; 03-28-2006 at 04:39 PM. Reason: double post
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:37 PM
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As usual, I agree with bondo king. If you have a new urethane base on there, if you can sand it smooth enough to paint on top of, no need to re epoxy the whole thing. Do as bondo said on the dented areas. If they are worse dents then should be filled with a spot putty which can go on top of sanded paint, then grind the dent down to metal, shoot some epoxy on it, fill with bodyfiller and finish up priming just them spots with more epoxy and 2k primer. You will have to make the decision on when you sand if you are going to want to reshoot the whole thing with another coat or two of base, or if it sands smooth wetsanding with around 600-800 grit and your not breaking through if you only want to reclear and just base your repair areas and any cutthrough. Urethanes have to crosslink to cure, which means hardener and iso's. The only paint that wouldn't have them is an enamel base paint which doesn't have to sprayed with a hardener, or a lacquer based, but I wouldn't use a lacquer and wouldn't use an enamel without adding hardener to it. All part of learning, we all experienced at least a few hard knocks learning to paint, so don't get down about it. Some luck out and there first job turns out great, others like my first are loaded with hangers and a bit of peel. You got an advantage and a disadvantage today, Materials are quite a bit more pricey then when I started, but you have the internet and access to information at your finger tips.
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Old 03-28-2006, 05:06 PM
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While your learning why not just repair one fender start to finish at a time with the present product you have.

It will be easier to learn and correct as sometime the allover job can be overwhelming.

Like said above it was not the products fault, so learn to use that product and the next job try a single stage if you want.
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Old 03-28-2006, 06:57 PM
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Don't sand the entire car with 180, just noticed you wrote that. Where you are putting spot putty, sand with 180, or take the paint off down to epoxy primer if you sprayed that on the first time, or grind to bare metal. Either apply bodyfiller over the baremetal or spray more epoxy primer on baremetalthe before you apply the bodyfiller. Feather the paint out past where you will be applying filler. Once the dent is straight and your to the point of paint you have to go finer. Sand the final primer and area you will be applying base with around 600 wet, but I've gotten away with as course as 400. The rest of the car if only going to be cleared and you are not planning on spraying more base on the entire car, I would use maybe around 800-1000 wet, but some people go courser. Clear can be a bit easy to slide if you apply your coat too heavy on a 1000 scratch, so I normally apply my first coat of clear medium wet, not real heavy, and the following coats will kinda have the first coat of clear to grab onto. The 2nd and 3rd coats of clear can be applied a good wet coat, allow proper flash time between coats. On your last coat of clear site down panels as you go along so you can hit any dry areas right away and it will melt in so you have a good smooth glossy coat all over.

Last edited by kenseth17; 03-28-2006 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:14 PM
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Renting a booth for the day and then rushing to get it done is asking for more problems IMO. Wetsand the complete car with 600 grit on a block. Repair any waves and dents and prime with a urethane surfacer, final block the surfacer with 600. Shoot base over the repair areas till they are covered then one coat over the whole car, apply your clear. Or you could use a single stage like you planned. Nason's singlestage isn't the most durable product so expect carwash scratches to show up especially with black.

Or just shoot a few panels at a time like Barry suggested, this way you can concentrate more on getting the application right. To me it just sounds like you rushed the job the first time around. Bob
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:12 PM
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Yeah I did rush a bit, I had to paint when there was snow just showing on the ground. But I like what ken and bondoking suggested, I will have to buy more of whatever i need because I am all out of paint/primer. So If i can buy a quart of base i will need all the catalizers(I do have reducers left over i think), and i will need more primers even for a spot repair. It all seems really expensive, if i buy a gallon of epoxy and a gallon of single stage I think that would be cheapest. I dont wanna blow more then I have to it only needs to be good for a few years.

Can you buy all the catalizers in small amounts? What would be the cheapest way to go?

Thanks
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:25 PM
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Some paints you can by the amount of catalyst needed for a smaller amount, some you have to buy enough for a gallon of material. I never used nason other then the clear. In fact the reason I got that it is the only one my supplier had where I could buy a half pint of hardener which was the right amount for a quart of the nason clear. Not that that really matters, I think you will probably need about a gallon of clear if you are going to be reclearing the whole thing, depending on reduction and activation ratio, and a lot of the times it is just as cheap to buy a full gallon of something compared to a few quarts. Base at the jobbers is usually mixed as small as a pint, although I did get half a pint of base from my supplier that I buy from often. clears and primers usually have to buy a quart or more. I don't think you will really need more then a quart of your primers if you are only fixing a few dents. I did paint one of my cars with a cheaper single stage urethane, omni mtk I think it is. Has a limited selection of colors, and must say it really has held up well, and it cost about $90 bucks for a gallon with the hardener included in that price. I painted it white, and a color such as red may not hold up as long since they tend to fade quiker then other colors as well as being a more expensive pigment. If you do go the single stage route, I would suggest a solid color so you can buff as well as being easier to apply. A single stage metallic is a bit tricky even for someone who has done it before.
A lot of basecoats paints get reduced only and are not activated, or activation is optional. PPG dbc only gets reduced 100-150 percent, and cheaper bases like ppg omni and limco only get reduced also, require no activation.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:39 PM
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Okay, I know you said orange peel and run city, but did you try wetsanding and buffing at all. May be worth a shot before redoing the whole thing. You really can save a bit with buffing. Where are your dents, scattered all over, or just really on one panel. Maybe you can shave the runs, and block with 600 if pretty bad and also block out the orange peel, buff the majority of it, and just blend your base and reclear the panel with the dents. If you were planning on repainting anyways, it wouldn't hurt too much to try to save the finish buffing. It could be tough if that clear has been on there for a year buffing back out, but may be worth a shot.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:44 PM
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The color will be a solid gloss black. No metallics. I will check out the prices and decide from there, thanks for the advice everyone. I will post pictures when it is finally done.
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:05 PM
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I think some pic's NOW might save you some time and money.

This happens to REAL painters almost on a daily basis. Just part of the game bro. I had to sand off $150.00 worth of kandy because I got in a hurry,Think I wasn't ready to blow my brains out....
But IF you checked out my Dragster post earlier.It all worked out in the end.
Paint starts with a "P" which so does Persistence, It's a MUST have attitude as well as being Stubborn. I ain't letting NO paint beat ME.

Ain't no problem a little sandpaper won't fix.

Sounds like you need a little break and regroup. Get some pic's up now and let us SEE just how it really is,Usually not as bad as it seems.
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Old 03-28-2006, 10:29 PM
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I dont think i will be able to sand and buff as the clear has been on now for about 6 months. I will post pics tomorrow after school, and before i go to work. Didnt know clear was hard to sand after a long time. Looks like my option is only to respray. But you guys can see the brutal job I did in a bit.
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