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Old 06-01-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine shop tom
If you don't use the oil shields with the o-ring seals you will have an oil burner. Using the oil shield will set the springs up .030" tighter. You'll probably need to cut the spring pocket deeper or use a +.050" keeper. Kinda negates the easy fix of using the o-ring seal.

Plus, Vor-Tec valve don't have the o-ring groove in them.


tom
Ok, well the best ones to use are really the 2.2L Chrysler turbo umbrella valve seals, they fit perfect..but I can't tell you guys all the secrets...a google search for "vortec heads max lift " might help ya too.

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Old 06-01-2008, 01:21 PM
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Thanks Machineshop Tom

I managed to clean things up this morning, mostly my garage. I brushed off the piston tops for the sake of photograph & to gather some dimensions. I did not find any numbers stamped into the piston crowns. I miked the bore & found ita bit under 4.00, this I attribute to a slight cylinder piston ridge. The numbers for the dish are on the pix. Under a shop light, evidence of the cylinder honing is visible.



Here are the specs as I measured them.



The last honing crosshatch is visible.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:48 PM
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what year or casting number is the block?
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:25 PM
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It is a crate motor Hecho en Mexico.

I ran the numbers & can't find a dern thing on it.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXS
Ok, well the best ones to use are really the 2.2L Chrysler turbo umbrella valve seals, they fit perfect..but I can't tell you guys all the secrets...a google search for "vortec heads max lift " might help ya too.
The Chrysler 2.2 Turbo seals are no different than the Chrysler 2.2/2.5 seals.

Plus, they are designed for a .500" OD guide with a retaining groove cut into it.

The guide must be cut to .500" OD, in which case there are better seals for the job.

tom
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DENCOUCH
It is a crate motor Hecho en Mexico.

I ran the numbers & can't find a dern thing on it.
Those pistons are the same as the KB cast ones you spoke of earlier.

tom
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine shop tom
The Chrysler 2.2 Turbo seals are no different than the Chrysler 2.2/2.5 seals.

Plus, they are designed for a .500" OD guide with a retaining groove cut into it.

The guide must be cut to .500" OD, in which case there are better seals for the job.

tom
sounds better. so what seals work better then??? if you know some speak up.
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXS
sounds better. so what seals work better then??? if you know some speak up.
Enginetech S2926

Engine Pro 35-108V

Both for .500" OD guides.

tom
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:03 PM
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MachineShopTom

Thanks for the link to the pistons, I am going with your suggestion. The H345NCP's look great with a Compression dist 1.560 and Deck Clearance .025 give me some numbers I can work with.

I am thinking that with a .015 steel shim head gasket my quench is going to be .040, true?

If that is the case, then I am going to have around .020 to spend in decking the block and milling the heads. With these head gaskets, I am honestly going for a flat mating surface between the components.

Thanks for the suggestion on the pistons, it is appreciated a great deal.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:18 PM
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F-bird-88

Thank you for cutting me some slack on my mis-measuring. Yes, I am a dolt!
I honestly did write down .090 as the piston to deck measurements only to screw it up with my fancy Photoshopping.

The 10 inch stall converter sounds great, It will be on the list!

The Vortec heads are staying stock with the exception of your spring suggestion. Everything is going to work around the "Lift Rule" Isky cam you suggested. I want to shave the heads a bit not only for the sake of decreased chamber volume, but to insure a flat making surface for the .015 steel shim head gasket.

I have short tires,but wi-i-i-de! The truck is dropped 4", and she probably weighs 4000lbs.

I am one of those lucky guys that live only 10 blocks from work. I drive exactly 1 mile one way. I have another car at my disposal if need be (Translation: Gas goes to $10. a gallon), so gas is no problem with me.

I am ordering flat top pistons with a Compression dist of 1.560 and a Deck Clearance of .025. I am hoping to engineer a quelch of between .030 & .040.

So good so far?

Thanks for you help and guidance. You don't know how much it is appreciated.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Cannot guarante that the hyper H345NP piston will have a 1.56" pin height.
The F-M book specs are 1.54" for the plane cast 345 piston and 1.56" for the hyper version. (I'm of the opinion this is a typo based on my past H345NP piston measurments.)

My old 350 had the hyper "H345np-60" pistons and had a 1.54" measured pin height. I measured myself when we tore the motor down for repair.
My block was decked a lot lot. Piston was .018" down the bore at TDC.
I have a set in the shop I'll measure tomorrow (if I remember). Somebody PM tomorrow morning (so I don't forget).

tom
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:08 PM
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Thanks for the info.

Thanks guys for your help. I haven't ordered pistons as of yet, so I am unencumbered at this end. No bridges burned here.
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:35 AM
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I measured the H345NCP. It has a 1.560" compression height. The same as what I measured on some a few years ago. Which I forgot.

tom
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:55 AM
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Thanks MSTom

Thanks or your efforts. Now, before I part with any greenbacks, allow me a second to see if I am clear on this.

Utilizing flat top pistons will give me a better shot at controlling quench than using dish pistons, true?

I can add the measured piston height to the head gasket thickness to determine if my quench is tight enough?

If quench is tight enough, then I will not build myself into a corner where I cannot run this motor on pump gas?

Thanks for the enlightenment!
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:06 AM
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I have scanned through this thread, and I may have missed some things but here is what I would suggest.

Ditch the lift rule cam...it will kill a street car and you will end up spending more on drivetrain to compensate for the duration. (gears, converter etc)

Check out beehive (conical) valvesprings from crane, these will allow you to run alot of lift at the same installed height as the stock vortec springs. WITHOUT MACHINING.

If you are going to rebuild the bottom end, get a better piston than those 345's something with a flat top and two valve reliefs. There are some really reasonable forged pieces out there that are well worth the extra coin. You just need to know what you are looking for specifically because these are not always advertised widely in the popular shopping spots.

Get rid of the steel shim idea...GM makes a gasket (10105117) that is a composite and is only .021 compressed thickness. (they advertise it as .028 but I have checked them myself) This will eliminate the common problems with steel shim head gaskets and only give up .006 quench.

Like CNC said, you will not be happy with your "budget" motor unless you put a little extra cash into the places that count. And if it takes a few hundred bucks extra to be able to run whatever cam or compression ratio you want then you should go for it, otherwise you will probably be doing it later.
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