"fabbers" and automotive fabrication - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Hotrodders' Lounge
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 01:23 PM
Jon's Avatar
Jon Jon is offline
Hotrodders.com Administrator
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners Last photo:
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Colorado
Age: 37
Posts: 3,206
Wiki Edits: 7314

Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
"fabbers" and automotive fabrication

Some of you may have heard the term "fabber" starting to poke its head out in various online DIY circles.

"Fabber" is short for digital fabricator: a device that makes things automatically from digital data. Computer data goes in, and 3-D objects come out.

For example, a CNC machine is a type of "fabber". From what I've gathered, CNC machines qualify as "subtractive" fabbers -- they fabricate by removing material from a solid block, either by turning, milling, or electric discharge machining. Other fabber classifications include "additive" (material is added into place to build up the desired object), "formative" (opposing pressures are applied to material to modify its shape by bending or molding), and "hybrid" fabbers which combine two or more of the above methods.

Obviously, automated fabrication is typically expensive, and generally unavailable to the average consumer.

However, internet do-it-yourselfers and electronic geeks/freaks have been starting to assemble their own fabbers from cheap parts and plans available on the net.

Some of the bigger universities have a hand in the emerging "fabber" culture (MIT, Cornell, etc.), as do some of the lowbuck net-based DIY cultures. There's plenty of information available, from both scholarly circles and basement hacker-folk.

Fabbers have some inherent limitations, especially the DIY kind that most people may attempt to build at home. Nevertheless, they could certainly be useful for low-volume custom parts production for automotive enthusiasts.

Here's a pic from the fabber wiki. It appears to be a Cornell University lab prototype for a basic additive fabber. Lots more links below.



Fabbers.com
Fabber Wiki (run by a Cornell University prof and grad students, lots of pics, and vids of fabbers in action)

Also, The Edge, a group of visionary scientists, writers, and thinkers (among my favorite media sources), has a video talk with a leading MIT scientist on the emergence of fabbers: Fabbers at The Edge

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 02:22 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
A while back I saw a really neat article about the type of "fabber" that uses a vessel full of a light activated liquid polymer. I believe I saw it in plastics technology magazine as well as a discovery channel tech show..

A CNC set of lasers, concentrated and shot simultaneously on a series of spots within the solution, created very complex shapes, directly from cad files created by a designer. The solid shape was created by the polymers reaction to the concentration of the multiple beams of laser light.
The resultant "plastic" was sturdy and heat resistant enough to be used for intake runners,and ducting. An added benefit was that it could be used for making wind tunnel and flow bench mockups with much less cost than traditional hand made mockups. The uses were seemingly endless in the automotive and aerospace industries.


I did not see that one mentioned in that wiki,
I want one.

The stuff we thought was baloney 20 years ago is coming to be true.

Later, mikey

afterthought edit:
Other uses of the multiple laser technology has found a place in the medical field. The convergance of 2 or more lasers to concentrate a pinpoint of heat is used to "burn" out certain tumors and cancerous growths. The benefits to this type of technology are that now the surgery is non invasive, the cancer is obliterated on the spot, which lessens the chances of spreading the cancer through misplaced malignant tissue, and the cancerous tissue does not get exposed to oxygen, which is believed by some to aid the spread of cancer.

Let's give a hand to the propeller headed geeks

Here is a link to a pdf that describes several of the modeling technologies.http://www.mas.dti.gov.uk/pluto-reso...9632617204.pdf
mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example

Last edited by powerrodsmike; 11-26-2006 at 04:13 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 03:06 PM
Henry Highrise's Avatar
Lost in the 60's
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dixieland
Age: 69
Posts: 15,189
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Quote:Mikey "The stuff we thought was baloney 20 years ago is coming to be true." .................................................. ............................ Ain't that the truth!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2006, 08:27 AM
Dusty82's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: The Chevy Bench Seat - Part 52
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Nevada
Age: 53
Posts: 306
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I found the plans online to build a 3D CNC router, but I haven't done anything with them yet. The builder used it to carve out foam blocks to make the plug for a fiberglass body. My thought was to build a smaller version of his router (which was 10' X 10' I think) to experiment with before building the full-sized article.

The thought of eventually building a 2D CNC machine that would use a plasma cutter to cut out parts from steel plate is intriguing, to say the least. I've seen such items for sale on the net, usually starting at about $4500 and going up from there - PC and CAD software not included.

If this catches on like I think it will, we may consider the bar raised as far as home made bodies and frame/suspension designs are concerned. I think we're in for some wild times in the design department, and that can only be a good thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2006, 12:27 PM
3D Customs
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3D Fabrication

We started doing 3D fabrication five years ago but we don't use a CNC; all of our work is hand sculpted. We can also do factory plastic. We are going to do some cars in the near furture. If you go to our web site you see a eight pound bowling ball being droped from four feet on a 3D sculpted fender and it takes the impact with no damage.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Finished sand & finished primer 004.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	79.8 KB
ID:	16880   Click image for larger version

Name:	Finished sand & finished primer 005 Croped.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	66.0 KB
ID:	16881   Click image for larger version

Name:	Skullgas tank RS 100.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	73.2 KB
ID:	16882   Click image for larger version

Name:	3D skull gas tank repainted.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	64.9 KB
ID:	16883  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2006, 02:55 AM
Race The Truck
 

Last journal entry: Son's Truck
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 58
Posts: 645
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I put in a over head crane for a company in CA that build air craft landing gear. Starting a landing gear as a casting. Went on to a CNC machine then went in to a fabber they call the green monster. everything was automated. Change its own drill bits end mill and so. We were told it took one year for all the machining to be done. Back then late 80's was a new tech deal which took the human factor out of fabrication. We all said wow we are all going to be replace one day. So true I should have boned up on my computer skill.
Still I bet it a little impractical for the back yard guy. bet that cost 5,000.00 to build. I don't thing thats cheap.


Craig
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2006, 09:44 AM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
[QUOTE=3D Customs]We started doing 3D fabrication five years ago but we don't use a CNC; all of our work is hand sculpted. QUOTE]

That does not have much to do with the "fabber" as described in this thread. Your artwork is very nice, and intricate and takes a great deal of talent, but the process here is that a part is created directly from a digital file. Imagine how much easier your process would be if you could put a tank or fender in a machine like is pictured in the first post and have epoxy deposited directly on the part in the shape you designed.

The traditional CNC process is one of material removal, which makes waste, no matter how you do it. Several of the fabbers described use a deposition process that only uses the material as needed.

Several of the machines themselves seem easy to build at home, using off the shelf robotics parts and controllers. The programming is probably fairly easy.

I think the idea is that a guy could build one of these machines for a fraction of the cost of a CNC machining center and create much more intricate parts than could be done with a regular 3 axis machine.

The materials being developed today are easier to create shapes and parts from, and many can replace their metal counterparts. Imagine some wild dashboards or fenders or headlights that could be made with the process. And it doesn't require the hand /eye coordination that a sculpting process does.

I will say that nothing will replace talent. But if I could take a picture of something one day, and have it recreated in an epoxy or plastic just by letting the machine run for a day or so, well that would be cool.

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 12:15 PM
Dusty82's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: The Chevy Bench Seat - Part 52
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Nevada
Age: 53
Posts: 306
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Sorry to drag up an old thread like this (I know, I do it a lot) but I saw an ad on TV this morning for a computer-controlled carving machine from Sears called the CompuCarve.

I checked it out online and found 2 sources for this machine - Sears and the original manufacturer CarveWright. I won't link either place in this post, because I don't want to have it popped for advertising. A Google search will give you the links.

Currently as sold, the machine will carve wood, plastic, and some types of foam - perfect for some hotrodding applications. I like the fact that you don't need a computer in the shop - the projects are loaded onto a memory card, and the card is inserted into the machine. The machine then walks you through the process via prompts on a LCD display. At the CarveWright site, there is a demo video that can be downloaded, and it is pretty cool.

The machine has some limitations, like a 1 inch depth of cut limit, but I can see carving some items in several sections, then gluing those sections together, stacked one atop the other, to make larger pieces - i.e. dashboards and consoles. The CarveWright site lists the machines size limitations as a maximum of 5" tall, 15" wide, and a length of 12 feet - but that's because of weight, not length. I'm thinking a person could use the machine to create molds for fiberglass parts, positive molds for castings, wooden or foam parts that will be covered by upholstery such as arm rests or door panels, and various other applications. The list is endless, really. (Custom garage/house signs?)

One of the things I really think is cool is the fact that you can import photographs into the software, then carve the photo into wood or plastic. There are examples of this on the CarveWright site.

Has anyone here on the board used this machine? Any input, whether good, bad, or indifferent, would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to talk to somebody who has one and see what they think of the machine. They currently retail for about $1800 - $1900 depending on the source, and it appears both sources are currently out of stock - must be a popular machine! I'm thinking I might check into this machine a bit more seriously once one source or the other has some in stock. Thanks for any input you may have!

Dusty
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 04:21 PM
Bare Knuckles Champ
 

Last journal entry: Made a wrench...
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SW Colorado
Age: 42
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Haven't seen any more on that machine than the ad you saw (saw it as well).

But, am really looking into these '3D Printers', or 'fabbers'. Tried a couple out at SEMA. Wow. Making separate components that thread & lock, complete heads, carbs, etc. And they're fully functional to testfit & build around for prototype work. What a step forward in the prototype / design step for small businesses. The ones I'm looking at run about $30k in ready to run form.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Green Bay, WI
Age: 44
Posts: 2,073
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
yeah, awhile back I was reading some site on cnc equiptment people built at home. Pretty cool, like for example a foam cutter, where you could model a hot rod body in a software program and then the machine would cut a block of foam out to shape which you could then lay up fiberglass on. Pretty interesting some of the things people made. Having a cnc plasma cutter would be neat too. One I saw someone made would probably have taken up most of my small garage. Even building one yourself looked a bit pricey to me with the ball screw, servo motors, steel and software, but would be cool to try to maybe build something one day. I would like to build a lot of things, but too dumb and too poor, so probably won't happen anytime soon. Does make for interesting reading, but I usually hurt my brain trying to comprehend some things. Another thing I started looking at was scanners which would create the capture the shape of the object with lasers and then in a software program would create a 3d model which then you could then be used by cnc equiptment.

Last edited by kenseth17; 01-08-2007 at 04:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:59 AM
Jon's Avatar
Jon Jon is offline
Hotrodders.com Administrator
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners Last photo:
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Colorado
Age: 37
Posts: 3,206
Wiki Edits: 7314

Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Dusty82 -- good post (BTW, it's OK to post links to any commercial sites, as long as you're not personally affiliated with them ). I saw that new machine too, it's all over the DIY blogs. It looks like Sears got permission to re-brand the CarveWright machine as the "CompuCarve".

More info: Toolmonger, CarveWright.

IMO, both the Cornell fabber and the CompuCarve are harbingers of a new era in home fabrication.

Recall how, a couple of years ago, those custom machining websites started to appear. You send in a diagram, you get a custom-machined part mailed to you. Now, look how the home-fabrication culture has advanced a few steps with these machines. What's the next step in the evolution of DIY fabber culture? Can the machines feasibly evolve to work metals, without becoming prohibitively expensive for the average consumer?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 10:34 AM
3D Customs
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sculpting plastic

There are some very good machines out there but I would like to find one that can sculpt a rattle snake twisting around a piece of tubing or carve these flames in these intake vents and be affordable. Sculpting plastic is very diffifcult.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	even flames in the air intakes on the Busa upper.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	66.6 KB
ID:	17548   Click image for larger version

Name:	blade in primer.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	70.4 KB
ID:	17549   Click image for larger version

Name:	front view of Blade.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	28.9 KB
ID:	17550  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 11:24 AM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 34
Posts: 3,485
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike

afterthought edit:
Other uses of the multiple laser technology has found a place in the medical field. The convergance of 2 or more lasers to concentrate a pinpoint of heat is used to "burn" out certain tumors and cancerous growths. The benefits to this type of technology are that now the surgery is non invasive, the cancer is obliterated on the spot, which lessens the chances of spreading the cancer through misplaced malignant tissue, and the cancerous tissue does not get exposed to oxygen, which is believed by some to aid the spread of cancer.
Not to hyjack the thread, but what was your source on this information, I'd be interested to read it. Superficial cancers can be treated from the skin or body openings (using an endoscope). Any time you enter a body cavity with any instrument, its considered invasive. Laser therapy inside the body does not always involve burning out cells (only when lasers are used as a scalpel alternative). Some laser therapies only use a temperature of about 113 degrees Fahrenheit. Cancer tends to be a bit more susceptible to higher temperatures (generally protein chains tend to start breaking up at higher temps). With any laser therapy cancers aren't usually just obliterated on the spot (unless you're talking about standard surgical excision). Its somewhat like radiation which is harmful to the cancer cell, and after treatments the cells are monitored and hoped to shrink or die after some time. Laser therapy is generally used in conjunction with several other therapies. Also I've never heard that open cavity traditional surgery which exposes cancer to open air aids in its spread. Cancer is exposed to more oxygen through the blood than it is through the air (which is 80% nitrogen) continuously.

K

Last edited by killerformula; 01-09-2007 at 11:52 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 02:24 PM
37year old kid's Avatar
Biggest tool in the box!
 

Last journal entry: Super Stock
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Glendora California
Age: 45
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You guys lost me at Computer controlled...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2007, 06:04 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerformula
Not to hyjack the thread, but what was your source on this information, I'd be interested to read it. Superficial cancers can be treated from the skin or body openings (using an endoscope). Any time you enter a body cavity with any instrument, its considered invasive. Laser therapy inside the body does not always involve burning out cells (only when lasers are used as a scalpel alternative). Some laser therapies only use a temperature of about 113 degrees Fahrenheit. Cancer tends to be a bit more susceptible to higher temperatures (generally protein chains tend to start breaking up at higher temps). With any laser therapy cancers aren't usually just obliterated on the spot (unless you're talking about standard surgical excision). Its somewhat like radiation which is harmful to the cancer cell, and after treatments the cells are monitored and hoped to shrink or die after some time. Laser therapy is generally used in conjunction with several other therapies. Also I've never heard that open cavity traditional surgery which exposes cancer to open air aids in its spread. Cancer is exposed to more oxygen through the blood than it is through the air (which is 80% nitrogen) continuously.

K
I tried to find the source for that bit of stereo laser stuff so I could back it up, but I could not. I want to say it was on one of those discovery channel shows about up and coming medical technologies.) As much as I'd like to, I can't find a reliable source to share with the group. You can call it wishful thinking on my part, although you know that I don't usually make stuff up.

The theory about cancer spreading upon exposure to the atmosphere seems to be a belief among some cancer surgeons. I know that I have heard it mentioned by 2 different surgeons who had the opportunity to cut pieces out my relatives. (it's fun getting older and getting to take your parents to the doctor) It was usually mentioned as a cause for reoccurrence about the time the cancer came back after surgury and radiation. That could be flim flam also, I only repeated what I'd heard.. If you read back, you will see that I wrote "some believe" regarding that theory.

All I know is that just about the time someone comes up with a better treatment for cancer, a worse cancer comes along..

I saw that craftsman cnc machine also. I thought it looked cool.

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodders' Lounge posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crankshaft Coalition: choosing a topic for your automotive forum Jon Hotrodders' Lounge 0 04-27-2006 01:50 PM
Automotive and Marine Engines topfuel Engine 16 06-08-2005 08:19 PM
42 volt automotive electrical systems hoodoo Hotrodders' Lounge 2 10-31-2004 04:35 PM
free online automotive video collection Jon Hotrodders' Lounge 0 06-27-2004 12:56 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.